Posted on 10/25/2008 8:52:33 AM PDT by SilvieWaldorfMD
I went to the actual site and did a copy and paste of the image of the CLB they have posted there. If you take it up to about 400% the “halos” from the mismatched pixel pattern around the substituted text are quite clear. Such a mismatched of the pixel pattern indicates an altered image.
Prima Facie means "on hte face of it" until proven otherwise. With a vault copy - which shows more detail - things can be proven otherwise. That is why in my above posting the department requests the Certificate of Live Birth and not the COLB. If a COLB is submitted , they have to do further investigation. Notice it also says "proof of birth" NOT proof of birth in Hawaii. According to Hawaii law, someone born out of the country could walk in today and recieve a COLB as long as they can show their parent lived as a resident of Hawaii one year prior to their birth. Here is the statute:
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
If there were legs to this story something would have happened months or years ago. Nothing this big and easy to demonstrate could have escaped the Hilary opposition researchers, Republican opposition researchers, and members of both the conservative and elite media who were out to make a career.
Time to move on.
Look, I totally understand what you are saying. I am saying that this is shaking my confidence in our system. If we don’t have a free and fair system that applies to everyone, where do we end up.
This is a very important issue for me. Not on who I will vote for, I have already voted, but in how I view our government, our news providers and our major parties.
Sorry to keep on this subject, but it is really worrying me.
The short form Hawaii Certification of Live Birth that appears in scanned in form on the factcheck.org website is all that is needed to receive a passport or a social security card as it is the only birth certificate that the state of Hawaii issues.
You are wrong on 2 points. First the COLB is NOT a copy of the original. It is a summary. Second, it is NOT the only copy that Hawaii issues. This is from one of their websites:
http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
When applying for an application for DHHL (Department of Hawaii of Home lands) it states the following: In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL. When requesting a certified copy of your birth certificate from the Vital Records Section of DOH, let the clerk know you are requesting it “For DHHL Purposes,” and that you need a copy of the original Certificate of Live Birth and not the computer-generated Certification. If mailing in your request form, please fill in “For DHHL Purposes” in the “Reason for Requesting a Certified Copy” section. (See example on page 6.)
I also don’t want to move on just because of the process of elimination. I want it properly resolved. I don’t care about the “legs” of a story. I want to know the truth.
If Obama has nothing to hide, let him come clean.
This is ridiculous. Where is our check and balance system?
Thank you. I am starting to feel weird that this is really bothering me.
I don't know if you read my additional posting before you posted this . If you did, what don't YOU understand about what prima facie means ?
My mother said the same thing. She stated that the FBI, CIA and other intelligence agencies would have already explored this possibility (on whether or not Obama is a U.S. citizen) and the fact that nothing has been said or done about it verifies in fact that he is a U.S. citizen.
But, I’m a bit more malicious than my mother is and something just smells rotten in all of this.
I’m just merely posting an article (this thread) on what appeared in today’s Chicago Tribune. Mr. Silva’s ‘comment section’ is actually more interesting than the article itself.
I dont know or care what “prima facie” means (sorry, that was not true, in my past I was a legal secretary). But that is irrelevant. Did Barak Obama, or anyone on his legal team, provide the Ohio court with a vault copy of his birth certificate to your knowledge? That is what I am trying to determine.
I have already voted. This not about a vote for me. It is about our system.
About another post regarding the FBI and CIA. This doesn’t appear to me to be their area. What is the process and was it followed properly? If not, why not? Who is responsible? What can we do about it. I may sound cynical, but there it is.
Why do we have to make a determination by default?
We are making decisions based on the lack of truth and therefore making default decisions. We should be making decisions based on hard facts.
No, the only thing they ever released was that scan of the COLB on the website
Well, there is my issue. Making a decision from a lack of knowledge is dangerous.
And it was the the Penn Eastern Federal District Court, not Ohio
American Communist vs American Patriot
I have gone back and re-read this thread. I think I am answering the wrong person (sorry if this is the case). I almost never use the internet in this way, it is just that this is really bothering me and I am trying to sort out fact from fiction.
I guess in my heart of hearts I want him to be a citizen (even though I did not vote for him) because, if he is not, then I feel it is a crippling flaw in our system of elections. This would be so serious that I would have trouble recovering from it.
The doubts that continue to surface seem plausible enough to me to be discussed.
I am really unhappy that neither the DNC, nor the Obama campaign has resolved this issue for the electorate.
If there is nothing to hide, this should be resolved in about 10 minutes.
He is very probably a citizen, the question is whether he is a “natural born” citizen. That is what the vault copy would show.
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