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To: The Californian

So why didn’t they just submit a vault copy to the court, as McCain did and get past this?


A Hawaii Certification of Live Birth IS a vault copy.
One more time, for the slow reading group: “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” (HRS 338-13(b), 338-19


55 posted on 10/25/2008 9:43:22 AM PDT by jamese777
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To: jamese777

Yes, but it is my understanding that they did not submit it to the court, but posted it on the internet, and did not allow media or other interested people to see it.

Am I wrong on these items?

Please note that I am a small business owner, busy running my business and have only just started to follow this a few weeks ago. If I am in error on the facts, I am open to correction. Please do not treat me as if I am stupid to ask questions.


57 posted on 10/25/2008 9:46:24 AM PDT by The Californian
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To: jamese777
One more time, for the slow reading group: “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” (HRS 338-13(b), 338-19

Prima Facie means "on hte face of it" until proven otherwise. With a vault copy - which shows more detail - things can be proven otherwise. That is why in my above posting the department requests the Certificate of Live Birth and not the COLB. If a COLB is submitted , they have to do further investigation. Notice it also says "proof of birth" NOT proof of birth in Hawaii. According to Hawaii law, someone born out of the country could walk in today and recieve a COLB as long as they can show their parent lived as a resident of Hawaii one year prior to their birth. Here is the statute:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.

(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

62 posted on 10/25/2008 9:58:18 AM PDT by TheCipher
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