Posted on 10/06/2010 12:08:46 PM PDT by Nachum
Just going by the patch releases and expert analysis Sword. Please stop with the personal attacks.
“Dammit, driftdiver, you got my goat with that piece of silliness. Any reasonable person already knew that all complex software is vulnerable long before the recent adobe issues. OTOH, your statement is freakin’ meaningless in this context, if you evaluate the numbers. “
Not all “reasonable” people are willing to admit that all OSs and other complex software are vulnerable. Numerous “reasonable “ people insist that some complex software is not vulnerable.
I have been very critical of Windows on this thread but more critical of windows users. I have not mentioned OSx nor attacked OSx. I have only made general comments which are easily defended.
And yet I get attacked and insulted and swore at. I’ve been asked by Jim to leave the Mac threads alone. This is not a mac thread and the world does not revolve around Mac, and yet you insist on harassing me.
Perhaps you mac boys should stay off windows threads.
AM, Puget and I have been told to stay off Mac threads and we are complying. This is a Microsoft thread and yet the mac folks come on here and throw insults and harass.
1. I'm not a Mac boy, I'm a Windows user since Win 2.0. Today I've got a lot of different machines, including Windows, Linux, Macs, BSD, etc. to suit my various tasks. Most of my time, by the clock, is spent working in Win7.
2. Your statement (that all OSes are vulnerable), while factually true, was intended to misdirect the responsibility for the mess of Windows botnets on the internet, by implying that other operating systems are contributing substantially to that mess. That implication is factually false. So I called you on it.
I stand by my assertion that your statement -- even though true -- is meaningless in this context.
3. I do not think that calling your statement "a piece of silliness" was an attack, but if it hurt your feelings, I apologize for that. I will withdraw the "dammit", as that was unnecessary, although it was simply an expletive not directed at you but at the universe.
4. Sorry to see that you thought it necessary to call on the Admin Mod in this circumstance. No further comment on that.
Please do not mistakenly characterize me as a "Mac boy" again, since it is untrue -- I have no particular allegiance to any OS and use them all as required for my work and pleasure.
And in this particular instance, I was speaking from my position as a Windows user of over two decades experience, who was taken aback at your attempt to deflect responsibility to other OSes for what is a Windows problem.
As long as Windows folks deny that responsibility, the problem will not get solved. Please man up and help focus on the real problem -- old and unpatched Windows boxes. Encourage folks to clean up and upgrade to Win7, for example.
You guys were directed to stay off the Mac threads because you are not Mac users by choice, and apparently had no intent other than to disrupt those threads.
I have no intent to disrupt Windows threads.
As a Windows user of over 20 years experience, with (at present) 4 active Windows machines of my own at home and running a network of over 100 at work, I will join the Windows threads when I feel drawn to do so. And when I see other Windows users denying the simple facts of a situation with false implications, I may call them on it. (And I expect no less in return when I screw up, BTW.)
If you care to search my posts far enough back in the past year, you will find a couple where I bemoan the lack of a Windows ping list, and muse that if I had the spare time to do so, I would start one myself, because I think it would be a good thing.
That's all I've got to say on that topic. Thanks, have a good day.
Don’t swear at me again if you want to be taken seriously. Nothing was wrong with any of my statements. In context my comments were fine and addressed the posts I was responding to.
I called in the admin moderator as there have been numerous cases where that has been done to me. Cases where private messages were posted publicly. Cases where I was clearly baited and then my private messages were forwarded to the mods and Jim without my knowledge.
I’m tired of the lack of integrity so prevalent on these threads. The clear intent to do nothing but throw insults, harass, and bait.
Take this thread, many posters have added little to the thread beyond throwing insults at Microsoft. Puget and others got banned from the Mac threads for merely questioning the propaganda. We’ve been called satan, evil, trolls and so on and NEVER an apology.
Why the double standard?
Okay.
> Nothing was wrong with any of my statements. In context my comments were fine and addressed the posts I was responding to.
I disagree, but I suppose we can agree to disagree. You wrote:
> I have been very critical of Windows on this thread but more critical of windows users. I have not mentioned OSx nor attacked OSx. I have only made general comments which are easily defended.
Well, let's see. The exchange I referred to was:
>> This is the one of the reasons why I have for buying a Mac, CONCERN about computer viruses.
>> 7 posted on Wed Oct 6 15:25:57 2010 by Biggirl
> To: Biggirl
> As the recent adobe issues revealed all OS’s are vulnerable.
> 10 posted on Wed Oct 6 15:34:14 2010 by driftdiver
Sorry dd, but your comment to Biggirl was clearly directed at a new Mac OSX user, with the clear implication that Mac OSX is just as vulnerable as Windows. That false implication is what prompted our exchange.
However, we've beat it to death... :)
> I called in the admin moderator as there have been numerous cases where that has been done to me. Cases where private messages were posted publicly. Cases where I was clearly baited and then my private messages were forwarded to the mods and Jim without my knowledge. I’m tired of the lack of integrity so prevalent on these threads. The clear intent to do nothing but throw insults, harass, and bait.
I join you in your outrage about the invasion of privacy -- I would never consciously do such a thing myself. I am sorry that it happened to you.
> Take this thread, many posters have added little to the thread beyond throwing insults at Microsoft. Puget and others got banned from the Mac threads for merely questioning the propaganda. We’ve been called satan, evil, trolls and so on and NEVER an apology. Why the double standard?
As a non-partisan user of all OSes, I am appalled when any FReeper decides to go on a factually-incorrect anti-OS rant, especially a person attack rant. If you examine my comments on the recent threads you refer to, the vast majority of my comments are trying to calm folks down. I was severely grossed out by what happened there and am grateful for JimRob's calling of a cease-fire.
I think what you perceive as a double-standard is really this:
On a thread about "ABC" operating system or computer, users of "XYZ" operating system or computer should, I believe, keep a lower profile and act more graciously, since they are necessarily in something of a "guest" position on the thread. The meaty arguments should be had between the folks who are involved with the OS or computer under discussion. Not a caucus, but a respectful distance.
Outsiders who only join the thread to throw stones are disruptors.
There are disruptors in all camps. I consider those non-Windows users who join Windows threads and toss around terms like "Windoze" and "Micro$loth" to be just as disruptive as those non-Mac users who join Apple threads and toss around terms like "Macbot" and "Apple cultists".
As far as I know, you are not a daily Mac OSX user. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
I've got Windows machines all over the place, and I use them daily. When you've got Macs all over the place, and use them daily, you can apply for parity. Until then, there's a difference in our approach to these threads.
No particular comment, and no need to reply... but I realized driftdiver was pinging you to our exchange, so I figured I'd do the same thing as a courtesy.
Cheers!
> Sure it COULD be fixed that way. Or you could just fix the problem without spending any money on hardware or licenses.
An interim solution for the majority of the XP boxes out there is to get patched up to date, get good AV and run it religiously, and save your shekels until you can afford a Win7 installation. But the majority of XP owners don't do that.
Every Windows installation older than XP should be disabled from the internet. Period. And XP should be disabled from the internet starting in 2014 when support is dropped.
OBTW, the same is basically true for all obsolete versions of all operating system families.
Mac OS prior to OSX should be disabled from the internet. Period. Mac OSX versions for which Apple is no longer providing security patch support should be disabled.
This in spite of the fact that the risk from Macs is negligible, because there are no documented instances of Mac-based botnets. The opportunity is there, and eventually someone may figure out how to do it.
Not as sure about Linux or BSD. I keep my *IX boxes patched fairly well, but they represent such a small risk to the internet at large that I'm inclined to cut them some slack. :)
The posts insulted windows and inferred or outright stated mac didn’t have any problems.
I replied by saying all OSs have problems.
You sure seem to love taking things out of context and condemning me while ignoring the posts of others. Where are your ‘dammit’ posts to those mac users? Where?
And yes we are mac users as some of our test systems are mac. We’ve also developed an scanning tool for OSx for a university.
I choose not to buy mac personally, mostly because of the ignorance displayed by mac users here on FR.
Perhaps you should stay off the porn and gambling sites.
Either that or have your IT shop manage your PCs properly. My company hasn’t had a virus since we started 7 years ago.
But this isn’t a mac thread. Its a windows thread, please stop harassing me.
Do you seriously think that every request for you to back up your assertions with proof is a personal attack?
Please show the "personal attack" in that post? I know... that's another personal attack.
Please show the "expert analysis" demonstrating an "in the wild" exploit of any of those potential "vulnerabilities" that might lead to an "arbitrary code execution." Please show us how a data buffer overflow error in a NON-EXECUTE data stack or heap can ever execute? Until you CAN provide those data, your claims are so much theoretical nonsense. . . especially the ones about the challenges to your assertions as being personal attacks. Your claims are always fair game.
This is a windows thread, please stop trying to hijack the thread. You whined to Jim about me posting on your propaganda mac threads. At least have the courtesy and integrity of doing the same.
Excuse me? Where in the article is WINDOWS singled out as the only computer operating system that could be "banned" from the Internet for being "infected" with malware? I did not see that in the article.
Apparently you are ceding the point that it is only Windows that is in fact vulnerable to this malware infection problem. Thank you, driftdiver.
It's either that, or this is NOT a Windows thread and, in fact, IS a generic Internet thread, open to all Operating Systems discussion. Or is it your position that only Windows computers should be allowed on the Internet???
Perhaps you should read the article instead of making personal and emotional attacks.
“At my public library when the computers boot up they boot up clean with zero memory of what previous users have. My library session has zero memory or holdover of any previous sessions.
How can I make my computer do this at home?”
Someone mentioned Deep Freeze for Windows. I can recommend a simple, free and even more robust system than Deep Freeze. Have you ever tried running a Linux trial disk? Nothing is installed on your hard disk and every time you boot from the Linux CD you have a fresh session. It is a great way to try out different Linux versions too.
We also have some versions of linux that will boot from USB keys. Pretty darn slick.
I don’t go on porn sites. Nor do I gamble. PCs all over our company get viruses and are out of service for weeks. Often there is a loss of data. PCs DO get viruses.
I have 5 Macs [one desktop and 4 laptops] and various iPods, Touch and an iPad ... I probably will buy the tiny Nano tomorrow afternoon when I am in the store. I have never gotten a virus. I was also very active in the Los Angeles Macintosh Group and I never heard of anyone getting a virus ... ever. But I would imagine your Mac gets viruses all the time.
Despite YOUR promising TWICE to stay off the Mac threads, you still keep going on them.
This is not a MAC thread. Although it seems a popular place for mac users to come and throw insults.
Its a thread about microsoft “Virus-infected computers that pose a risk to other PCs should be blocked from the net, a senior researcher at software giant Microsoft suggests.”
Perhaps you can show where its a mac thread? Please
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