Posted on 05/02/2014 8:28:00 PM PDT by Mariner
Slavyansk, Ukraine (CNN) -- Deadly street fighting, helicopters shot down and civilians being used as human shields.
That was the picture that emerged Friday in southern Ukraine as violence escalated amid reports that dozens of people were killed in a fire and still more were shot dead or wounded in street fighting, raising the question of whether the country can stave off a possible civil war.
The violence -- pitting pro-Russian separatists against Ukrainian forces and those who support the government in Kiev -- prompted an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council, with Russia demanding an end to what it called Ukrainian aggression and Western powers accusing Moscow of funding the violence.
Russia and the West have squared off diplomatically over the fate of Ukraine, after Moscow annexed Crimea in March following the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. He was pushed from office after months of protests by people upset that he had turned away from Europe in favor of Russia.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Georgia has as much right to defeat ethnic separatists in their own country as Russia did in Checyhna. Georgia never attacked Russia. Russia attacked Georgia unprovoked, just as they have invaded Ukraine without any provocation or threat from Ukraine at all. Putin dropped cluster bombs on innocent women and children in Georgia to punish them for being America’s friend sand sending troops to Iraq to help us kill Putin’s good comrade Saddam Hussein.
I agree. To every last man, woman, child and dog. Just like we have the right here.
But we can't expect that everyone in the whole world would be OK with it. Some folks might take offense.
I agree too.
I do not think Obama has the ability or will to see that Russia or at least Putin has never given up on the cold war.
I believe Putin said something like, the worst catastrophe of the 20th century was the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I truly believe Putin and all his KGB buddies around him ( even though it may be some other initial, FSB, GRU, etc., once KGB always KGB ) want to return the ‘greatness’ of the former Soviet Union.
Ukraine ( Little Russia ) and the Baltic States are essential to the defense of Mother Russia as historically these are potential easy doors to open for European troops to head towards Moscow.
And the Black Sea; Russia absolutely needs access, this being one of the most important reasons for the annexation of Crimea.
But it’s really scary how 82% of Russians highly support Putin, and how Russia is looking more and more like a ultra-nationalist socialist security state that controls the people mainly through media and subsidies and will most likely clamp down on internet freedoms Chinese style.
They killed 60,000 Jews, 70,000 Poles and a lot of Russians.
The point of Ukrainian nationalist from this period was that they were for an independent Ukraine with independent Ukraine culture and they were against the Nazis, Soviets, and Poland.
And politically, not religiously, they were lastly against the Jews.
They chose to side with Hitler because Stalin was not an option, but even in 1943 they turned against the Germans.
Of the central and eastern European countries, they were probably the least antisemitic of them all.
Galician Jews lived and worked and were oppressed along with Ukrainians by the Polish before WWII.
But it wasn’t their religion that caused strife, but rather Ukrainians and Jews had a good relationship until the Jews signed a separate agreement with Poland that gave their community more rights.
When the Germans come into the picture, they intensely exploited Ukraine and Jewish animosities through propaganda bombardment ( sound familiar? ).
Putin ethnically cleansed thousands of innocent Georgian families. I take offense at that. I am not OK with it. I am glad our military advisers in Georgia helped the Georgians shoot down Russian jets and kill Russian invaders. I am glad we armed the Georgians and we should arm the Ukrainians too. I support America’s Georgian and Ukrainian allies. I will stand with anyone who fights against the genocidal terrorist Putin. NATO stands united against Russian aggression. Your little campaigns of subversion here will have no effect at all in undermining the will of the USA to fight our terrorist Russian enemies.
As for the rest, yeah, they're terrorists by that definition just like the crowd in Kiev, I don't doubt that a bit and see no reason to believe they have any corner on the market for that sort of stuff.
Dig through the videos that are available, they're not all from "Putinistas", far from it. The ones from Eastern Ukraine in where people formed lines and beat police forced to run the gauntlet? Seen the ones with civilians building barricades in the streets of Andriivka and confronting the troops? The ones from Odessa with the police beating people already obviously incapable of resisting? People in Odessa beating those who jumped to avoid the fire and not far away others trying to help people escape the fire? Some Odessa police escorting people from the burning building to protect them from the crowd while not far away police are ignoring people shooting at the building?.There are no clean hands in this and damn few trying to keep it from getting worse.
The crowd who took over with mob at their back in Kiev let the genie out of the bottle and no one has to do anything to keep it going now.
I hear through a friend with family who live near Kiev that their friends in the East are convinced the Kiev crowd will deport people in the East that they classify as "ethnic Russians". That would even include people born in Ukraine since it became independent but who had a parent who was born in Russia.
That may not be true, it probably isn't true (or wasn't as when the current crowd in Kiev took over), but it's the position the Right Sector and a lot of other Nationalist groups take. The people in the East, though, haven't heard a peep out of Kiev denying it nor have they seen current Kiev "government" crack down on Nationalist groups who espouse that goal.
So, in a chaotic situation they believe it and the people in Kiev haven't done a thing to change their view, they just issued edicts and demands while yelling for foreign troops to come help them. No matter what someone can say in defense of the "government" in Kiev, they sure can't defend them by pointing to how smart or in touch with reality they are.
That's the root cause of the country now falling apart. The people in Kiev who were desperate to seize power instead of waiting on elections but who had no idea of how to run the balancing act that's been going on ever since the country was formed when the USSR broke up.
The Russians are supplying MANPADS to their proxies and spetnazis.
When will Putin bring law, order, and prosperity to Russia? He’s brought a lot of prosperity to himself and his cronies; he is, after all, one of the richest men in the world. Do you see him as some type of altruist, or are you just blind to his reign as President for Life and Autocrat of All Russians and Russians Speakers?
Bush Urges NATO Membership for Ukraine, Georgia
We poked the bear, and now the bear has woken up.
Wrong.
That was eons ago and the NATO nations rejected Bush’s overture of bringing in Georgia and Ukraine.
The entire mess started because Georgia and Ukraine preferred to not be under the yoke of a rogue Russia with President for life Putin...who jails anybody who dissents against his policies and controls the media just like the old Pravda, Tass and Izvestia.
There's three sides to every story: One side's story, the other side's story, and the truth. It's not always easy to find the truth.
Hillary has probably already been there dodging “snipper” fire.
Take off the blinders. Russia is a thousand years old and has a long memory. Six years ago is like yesterday to them.
“6 years ago is NOT eons ago, RB.”
You are correct in chronological terms. But in real terms Bush’s overtures to bring Ukraine and Georgia into Nato were rejected immediately. So, what you bring up as the reason for this situation, is irrelevant to this situation.
Russia is annexing Ukraine because it wants Ukraine, forcibly back into it’s orbit.
I don’t think it is much in dispute. Worked out well, just like other Obamalini policies such as the “Arab Spring”.
Yes, I was aware of most of that.
And I agree.
There are no “good choices” for the Ukraine. And it is sad. The Polish and the Ukrainians have both been horribly treated.
This should congeal a greater cooperation with those two countries.
With Obama, the NATO countries have been divided.
All he touches brings destruction, subjection and death. It is the way of the Leftist Liars.
“fair”??
Like our last election?
And yes, the UN is a gathering place for leftist thugs, criminals and despots.
Good company for the O_tard.
No it's not irrelevant. The West has made repeated plays to bring the former Soviet republics into its fold and the Russians are reacting accordingly. They're not stupid and have decided to do something about it after this latest bungled attempt to subvert the original Ukrainian government.
Ask yourself how would the U.S. would react if the Russians attempted to interfere in Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean? Remember the Cuban missile crisis? Grenada?
“The West has made repeated plays to bring the former Soviet republics into its fold and the Russians are reacting accordingly.”
That is not the case. The West did not try to bring Ukraine and Georgia into the fold. As has been stated, the West rejected this.
Former nations that have been subjected to Russian dominaton such as Poland and the Baltics have been brought in and rightly so. They know without Nato and US protection they are vulnerable.
Ukraine and Georgia, former Republics of the Soviets/Russians do NOT wish to be absorbed by the Russians, but are being forcibly annexed.
That's not true, and I've already posted the links showing otherwise. You know this.
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