Apple begins storing users' personal data on servers in China

Reuters ^ | Aug 16, 2014 | Gerry Shih and Paul Carsten

[HiTech RedNeck]

Let um choose whether they want the Chinese business.

[Swordmaker]

Apple starts keeping some CHINESE CUSTOMER data in server farms inside China in strongly encrypted format with the encryption keys kept outside China. PING!

Apple CHINESE DATA Ping!

If you want on or off the Mac Ping List, Freepmail me.

[Drew68]

Apple is really trying to drive me away.

To where?

[dennisw]

Stomp on your iPad they make good doorstops

[minnesota_bound]

To Windows 8 : )

[Monty22002]

The only thing I like stored on the cloud are saved game data and the ability to reinstall games from a cloud client. Everything else is bunk. Keep it local and use bitlocker, especially if you have Windows 8.1 Pro and can just use a password.

[dayglored]

From the original article:

"China doesn't want any digital service offered to Chinese people to be hosted offshore," said Goldkorn. "I suppose it was inevitable that Apple had to comply if they were using foreign servers for Chinese user data."

Wow, so now they will store CHINESE user data on servers in CHINA, in compliance with CHINESE law. How novel. Who would have guessed that might be necessary?

You might almost think Apple wants to do business in China. To my knowledge, the US Goobermint has not declared that American businesses are not permitted to do business in China. So it's Apple's choice whether they do business in China in compliance with local laws.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[Cold Heat]

They are certainly going to get the Chinese business. That is not the issue.

The issue is that they are assisting the Chinese government to spy on the citizens who use apple products.

The reason they are doing so is because China was going to ban their phones.

It’s really not much different then the crap we put up with here, but at least we have some choices to limit the data collection.

My choice was to put all my smart phones in a drawer and go back to something that just makes phone calls and I limit the use of it.

Sure! they are going to get the Chinese business, as will everyone else in the region. (sarc)

[Swordmaker]

You don't know what you're talking about, or are making up stuff. From the Reuters' article :

“The data will be kept on servers provided by China Telecom Corp Ltd, the country’s third-largest wireless carrier, Apple said in a statement on Friday,” Shih and Carsten report. “A source with knowledge of the situation said the encryption keys for Apple’s data on China Telecom servers would be stored offshore and not made available to China Telecom… Jeremy Goldkorn, director of Danwei.com, a research firm focused on Chinese media, internet and consumers [said], ‘On the other hand if they don’t store Chinese user data on a Chinese server they’re basically risking a crackdown from the authorities.’ Goldkorn added that data stored in the United States is subject to similar U.S. regulations where the government can use court orders to demand private data.”

[Cold Heat]

They don’t need no encryption keys...

and if you believe what Apple is selling, I really pity you.

[Cold Heat]

PS....

It is one of the most unsecure phones on the planet.

[Swordmaker]

Oh BS, Cold Heat, 98% of all malware is for Android phones, the rest is for other makes other than iPhones. There are three known malware in the wild for JAILBROKEN iPhones. That's it.

As for security, this just came out from one of the companies that makes the cracking software for the police and government agencies to access encrypted mobile devices:

Apple's iOS blocks gov't spying efforts, Gamma's FinSpy useless against iPhone

So, again Cold Heat, you are spouting nonsense and FUD. The iOS devices are far safer than any other device from both malware or government intrusion. Apple is the one company that has not kowtowed to the government as has Google and Microsoft. Why do you think the encryption keys are kept off shore from China?

[GeronL]

What could possibly go wrong in a country where computer factories INSTALL malware

[Cold Heat]

I have not spouted any nonsense.

You are just so wedded to a OS that you cannot see the forest for the trees.

Of course you are not unique. But you are off topic because I am not talking about malware. That is the least of your problems.

And yes, Android is not secure either...It’s the phone dummy, it’s insecurity is entirely a product of it’s features that are running at any one time.

I don’t use android, tried it once in a Samsung galaxy and it scared me to death! But Apple is even more scary.

My point is that all these phones are vulnerable, for various common and some uncommon reasons. Obviously the LEO’s do use technical exploits and that is always a concern but there is nothing Apple, MS, or Google can do to stop them because as soon as they update the OS or hardware, the Government will do a workaround.

Now getting back to the thread topic.

Nothing in my reply to that poster was BS or made up. I suggest you go through it again. I did say that the Chinese threatened Apple with the banning of their product for security reasons unless they caved and allowed their cloud servers to be located at a Chinese controlled network. Apple had to comply or....they could close their stores and pull their products back to HK and Taiwan and other areas where the regulators can’t touch them.

So Apple made a money decision and any security that they did have is now toast.

That is the gist of my comment and the only reason I even bothered to participate of this thread. I had no intention of getting into a debate with a Apple sycophant. I have found it to be akin to drowning a bucket of kittens.

As I said, I gave up using these smart phones about three years ago. I found them to be useful but the tradeoff for that usefulness was too expensive for me. A desktop computer is bad enough, but a cell phone network, no matter who it is, has no privacy at all anymore..and encryption is just about as useful as the Enigma machine.

So yeah! I guess you could say I have taken the first steps toward “Galt”.

So trying to sell me on Apple security is like selling ice to a Eskimo. Being only marginally better then Android at one time or another in one aspect of the hardware of software for what will certainly be a very brief moment until new hardware and programming comes out to defeat it is a exercise in futility.

The only decently secure phone I ever owned was a Blackberry. That is because they used private servers for their E-mail. I have not followed them in a long time, but my understanding was that most governments on the planet, forced Blackberry to give them access to these offshore servers or get their products out of their respective countries...and that was quite some time ago. (but it should sound familiar to you...NO?)

So when I say that the Apple phone is even less secure then some, I base it on numbers and on their propensity to lie about it all the time. They can’t have business people thinking for a second that their phone data is in the wind.

But it is...

As is yours...

As for mine, it is getting older by the day and probably not useful anymore. As time passes it will be hard to find if they needed to look.

And that is the way I want it.

So to summarize, the only secure phone is no phone. It’s certainly NOT I-phone.

[Swordmaker]

And yes, Android is not secure either...It’s the phone dummy, it’s insecurity is entirely a product of it’s features that are running at any one time.

I'm a "dummy?" Amazing. I provide a link to an article proving your assertion wrong and you call me an insulting name. Ad hominem attacks are the last resort of those with out facts to back up their positions.

So when I say that the Apple phone is even less secure then some, I base it on numbers and on their propensity to lie about it all the time. They can’t have business people thinking for a second that their phone data is in the wind.

And your evidence of these perpetual lying is? I thought not.

The ability of malware authors to break into an OS is indicative of the strength of the security of the protections built into it. . . and Blackberries have been compromised by malware.

Cold Heat. You did not state that ALL cellular phones were vulnerable, You stated, authoritatively without proof, that:

PS.... it (the iPhone) is one of the most unsecure phones on the planet.

when, contrary to your false claim, it is the most secure. That is totally false, which I provided authoritative proff from the company that provides the software to break into mobile devices to police agencies and governments stating they could not get into iOS devices. Your claim that "because as soon as they update the OS or hardware, the Government will do a workaround" Is totally bogus because the government relies on contractors who provide them with the access software. . . which uses the vulnerabilities that hackers find. These are the same vulnerabilities that are used by the authors of malware, Cold Heat. If they aren't there, or don't allow exploitation, or connect to only heavily encrypted data without a key, nothing can be done with the invasion.

You are pulling your "facts" out of your FUD filled navel.

[Cold Heat]

Amazing. I provide a link to an article proving your assertion wrong and you call me an insulting name

I went back over what I said, and then your copy and pastes.

I find no difference between what I said to another poster, Your copy/and pastes, and the truth of the matter, yet you say I lied and pulled crap outa my azz... Just who made a ad hominum attack you useless piece of Apple core..

[Cold Heat]

As to Apple being secure....

LOL...that a figment of your imagination. (aided by a bunch of Mac-head propaganda) Apple phones are no more secure than any other over the counter consumer crap.

Blackberry, as I said, was at one time a fairly secure device, but they are no longer.

There are no secure phones anymore that you can buy mass market. The various governments of the world have seen to that.

[Cold Heat]

These are the same vulnerabilities that are used by the authors of malware, Cold Heat. If they aren't there, or don't allow exploitation, or connect to only heavily encrypted data without a key, nothing can be done with the invasion.

You keep returning to exploits and hacks, malware and gibberish while I have repeatedly said and this thread also says that these issues are not the topic being discussed.

I could care less about bozo malware, consumer data theft, and the usual crap they insert into apps. That's not what is being discussed here nor the point of the article.

The topic, which you keep diverting from, is government State access to data. The topic here is in regard to the Chi-Coms specifically.

Apple has turned over all their customer data in the Chinese region to mainland China who reads it, analyzes it, and uses it to compile dossiers of it's people of interest. (pretty much anyone)

It does not matter if they have the encryption keys because they have broken all of those. The programs and hardware they need to break these codes, they have stolen from us..Our wonderful CIA, NSA, and alphabet soup agencies..They don't need a damn key.

Nor does the NSA for that matter. They have or can break them all... Encryption has not scared anyone for years. Actually it never has. But if you want snooping neighbors out of your stuff, it's as effective as a padlock before it meets Mr. Bolt Cutter..

[GeronL]

I remember a story about a team from Microsoft going to a hard drive or laptop factory in China, they found that they all had malware and trojans installed.... IN THE FACTORY!!

[Cold Heat]

It's worse than that I think...

China CCP has deemed numerous Intel, and other processors as security risks. They think, (supposedly) that the US is putting back doors in them. But the fact is, that they are engaging in that with the replacement processors, giving them root level access to whatever it powers..

Anyone who thinks their version of consumer level electronics is secure in this climate of electronic eavesdropping is fooling themselves.

It's bad enough that even with a dumb phone the authorities in the US have access to the data revealing your calls, as it comes from the carrier, be it AT&T, Verizon or whomever, they can also track your location, and with a bit of additional data they know exactly where you are, when you got there and who you are likely with. The idea that this requires a warrant by a judge who gives a damn is a fallacy.

Technically in this day and age, they can generally collect data without a rubber stamped warrant, read it and use it for everything but a court room. And they built a huge data collection center to house it so they can browse through updated data as long as they have clearance to do so.

Smart phones, are a time saving tool for some, but they all have inherent risks. They make it far too easy to collect tons of useful data in the right hands,(or in the wrong hands) and I am not talking about your local grocery.

Desktops and laptops are bad enough. Yahoo, Google, and their associated services are bad enough. But at least they can only track you to the IP, assuming you don't use something as a mirror or false IP. But a consumer smart phone in your pocket is a danger not just to you, but to your company and associates as well.

It irks me that companies and some individuals in the US and abroad are not yet very concerned about this. Perhaps it's because they see no direct link between corporate spying and the individual phone. but I think this is changing. Unfortunately, the US has been a sucker for information gathering during the last 70 years.

The word “data” has only four letters but it means everything. The data harvested from phones compliments the data from corporate hacks and malware. It's just one tool in the box. But it's a productive one.

If our own government was not so paranoid, it would allow for better security in our electronic devices, but since they are so paranoid, they don't want anyone to have something they can't access. But they sure won't admit that.

It's the same everywhere you go, so we and China are not so unique.