[FReeper Editorial] Is Obama a Christian? A proposed response for conservative candidates...

Between my ears ^ | 9/19/15

[markomalley]

We see this Thursday that Donald Trump joined the ranks of conservative politicians who are under fire...not for what they've said but for what they haven't said. As we all know, Mr. Trump was confronted with a question during his Thursday Town Hall meeting in New Hampshire...a question likely posed by a plant from another campaign (Yeb?). Embedded within that question was an accusation that the current occupant of the White House was a Muslim.

The Trump campaign has largely been silent about the issue since that point in time; however, any number of progressive Republican candidates have been convinced to come to the defense of Obama in an effort to not be tarred with the paintbrush that the media are using on Trump.

It is my understanding that a few of the campaigns may have some people who look at Free Republic from time to time. The following is a suggestion on how to get the real point across:

You ask me whether I believe that Obama is a Muslim. I find it hilarious that you ask me that question, as this was a meme started by the Hillary Clinton campaign back in 2008. Other than the occasional gaffe, such as his faux pas ("my Muslim faith") during an interview with George Stephanopoulos in that same campaign cycle, he has maintained that he is a Christian. A person's religious faith is a very personal matter and whether a candidate claims to be one faith or another shouldn't really be challenged.

One thing that is, on the other hand, fair game is to evaluate how "his Christian faith" has impacted his public policy making. A famous Democrat President once said:

Whatever issue may come before me as president — on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject — I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates.

I would submit that this is only partially correct: one's faith informs one's conscience. While it is true that on purely ecclesiastical issues, it is entirely appropriate to separate one's faith from policy decisions, on matters of morals that cannot be the case. The Faith that one has internalized, whatever that faith is, informs one's values. One's values informs the decisions that are made, be those decisions personal or policy in nature. If a politician's values dictate that premeditated murder is wrong, there is no way that this politician could vote for or sign into law a bill that authorizes cold blooded murder, regardless of how popular this would be in society. This same famous Democrat President also said:

But if the time should ever come — and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible — when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.

---

There is a somewhat popular saying that goes like this: "If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?" I believe that this saying originates from a passage in the Gospel of Matthew where Jesus says:

[15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.

[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.

[20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

[21] Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

So since we can "know them by their fruits", what kind of fruits have been produced by Mr. Obama? Here is just a small sample:

In the area of morality:

• He has consistently advocated for abortion and, yes, even infanticide (reference his votes on "Born Alive Infant Protection Act")
• He has consistently persecuted Christian individuals, Christian-owned businesses, and Christian Religious societies to force compliance with his perverted views (reference Little Sisters of the Poor; reference Hobby Lobby; etc)
• He has consistently advocated for not just the acceptance of sodomy in society, but for the forceful indoctrination of these values. He has gone so far as to pressure foreign governments to adjust their national policies on the subject, contrary to the will of their peoples.

On the subject of Race Relations:

• He has incited people to riot; he has transformed the Department of Justice into the Department of "Just-Us" with their techniques of selective prosecution or persecution.
• Please, somebody, point out to me where he has gotten involved and truly emotional in the area of black-on-black crime. Hispanic-on-hispanic crime. Black-on-white crime. Hispanic-on-white crime. Black-on-hispanic crime or hispanic-on-black crime. He only seems to get deeply involved in one situation.

(Candidate who is reading this: you can and should continue this list for yourself: you can talk about the overseas issues such as revolutions he's supported vs revolutions he's opposed or ignored; Christian persecution as a result of those revolutions, and so on. You can talk about his leftist "cultural imperialism". You can continue this list for as long as you desire)

There are, admittedly, groups of Christians who believe that social issues are more important than moral issues. Let's take a look at Obama's fruit in regards to this:

• Income inequality. There are some who believe that income inequality is an important measure ("the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"). At the end of 2008, the year Obama was first elected, the top fifth of the country's population held 47.8% of the country's wealth. At the end of 2014, that amount has grown to 48.9% of the country's wealth. In 2008, the lowest fifth of the population held 4.0% of the country's wealth; by 2014, that amount has shrunk to 3.6%.
• Poverty. In 2008, the year Obama took office, 13.2% of the people in this country had incomes at or below the poverty line. In 2014, that number has grown to 14.7%.
• Employment. In 2008, there were 79.5 million people not in the workforce. In 2014, that number has grown to 92 million.

• Government Assistance. In 2008, there were 28 million people who used SNAP ("food stamps"). By 2014, that number has grown to 46.5 million.
• And I could go on and on and on: the point is that there is not one good measure out there, even from a "social justice" point of view.

Those are just a small example of the fruits of Obama.

---

So is Mr. Obama a Christian? He says that he is and it is not my place, nor is it the place of any of my supporters to question his assertion. That is, in the end, something between him and his God.

Is he a Christian in practice? Well, you can judge his fruits for yourself...I've listed just a tiny sampling of them above. Mr. Obama has accused himself of being a Christian. Is there enough evidence to convict him? You can judge for yourself.

One thing is for certain: he, like all of us, will some day stand before the judgment seat of Christ. And then all will be revealed one way or the other.

Question for my fellow FReepers: if a candidate was to respond as above, how would you react?

[hosepipe]

Ergo, to me it seems more likely that Obama is a Muslim than he is a Christian — if we are to judge him by his “fruits.”

---

It’s the rare more stupid Marxists that even care about religion.. i.e. opiate of the people..

Obama is a Marxist.. (which are also socialists[marxists])..
Like all Marxists HE USES religion to control stupid christians.. AND Muslims.. and _______.

WHY?.. because it works.. when it doesn’t Marxists KILL THEM..
So far it’s WORKING..

*** research: Stalin, Mao, Hitler, various KING’s.. etc.

[P-Marlowe]

Frankly, I would be very skeptical of the Christianity of anyone who can insist without hesitation to say that Obama is a Christian.

If Chris Christie is so darned sure that Obama is a Christian and he himself claims to be a Christian, I think perhaps we should examine Mr. Christie’s claim.

Let’s hear either of them stand up in public and proclaim “Jesus Christ is Lord! King of Kings, Lord of Lords, The Almighty!”

When they can stand before one of their political crowds and make that proclamation, then maybe we can give them the benefit of any doubt.

[hosepipe]

Exactly..

[xzins]

It would be a sight to behold, and especially if I couldn’t argue with the way they said it or read it.

[xzins]

he’s a tare.

[trisham]

Exactly right.

[hecticskeptic]

A few things to add to this reasonably well thought through response....

It is worthless to respond to this question of whether Obama is a Christian without quoting what the Bible says about who and what a Christian is.

My reading of the Bible tells me that there is only one 'means test' that is mentioned that could be interpreted to provide guidance on whether one is a true Christian or not.....if someone can find an additional one, I’d be very interested in hearing what it is. It’s found in 1 John 3:14 which says “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” Very simply, the one ‘who has passed from death unto life’ is the Christian while the one who ‘abideth in death’ is not. If you are one who loves other born again Christians, then you by definition are one as well…. and we know this because otherwise if you are not a born again Christian, Satan will plant seeds for you to hate Christians, some fiercely, some overtly and some passively but all will hate Christians. Why is this? Whatever is loved by God is hated by Satan. Satan’s jealousy of God which goes back to the beginning of time is as strong as ever…. and that jealousy extends through to those who God claims as His own. A Christian is one who formerly was a slave to Satan…. as an escapee from Satan’s kingdom, Satan has an even stronger hatred for the Christian. Another reason for this hatred is that a Christian is a threat to that kingdom…. James 5:16 says “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” Satan is well aware that a praying Christian is a powerful individual and as such, Satan will never know from what direction he will be taken a hit. Has Obama demonstrated that he has a love for born again Christians? Here is another take on this from 1 John 4: 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Theologically speaking, a Christian is someone who has received the Lord Jesus as Savior (John 1:12), trusts Him alone for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 4:12), has put no trust in his own efforts (Isaiah 64:6) to please God, and repented from his/her sins (Mark 1:15). In Matthew 5, Jesus said this “14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Those who are truly saved cannot be contained any more than a light in the darkness can, or the city set on the hill can be hidden. Would a true Christian saved from the fiery pit of Hell for all eternity take all that joy of being saved and hide it like putting a candle under a bushel hamper? And would they not want all those around them to also be saved from the fiery eternal death? As was asked in the article, "If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"

Having said all the above, only God really knows…. 1 Samuel 16: 7 “But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.” God knows the individual better than the individual knows him/herself and there are many Bible verses that speak to this issue. And in the case of who really is a Christian, in many instances there will be doubts as others assess this question but the answer is that only God knows since only he knows what is in the heart. Is there a means that others can use to get an answer to this question? Sure…. Hebrews 4:12 says this…… “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. All one has to do is present scripture to the subject and in watching the responses and reactions, the answer to the question of who is truly a born again Christian and who is not will be crystal clear…. the Bible is that powerful.

[Lake Living]

Obama is a type of the antichrist. He has many of the characteristics. Those with only a little discernment can and do see this. There have been many before him and they exhibited those same traits. But... there is a final fulfillment of who will be THE antichrist. Until and unless he repents, Obama will share their future.

[betty boop]

“He’s a tare.”

Indeed, a tare — an injurious weed that aggressively chokes the growth of beneficial plants wherever it gets established. This characterization of Obama, dear brother in Christ, strikes me as entirely fitting.

Even beyond that, I see him as a wolf in sheep's clothing. The sheep's clothing is, of course, his self-declaration as a Christian. He wears that sheep's clothing to disguise, to mask the fact that it is a cover for the ravening wolf that he actually is in his core character. It's a manifest lie.

But what else is new? He lies to us all the time. If you take his statements about his Christian commitment at face value, and then compare them with his actual deeds, you will probably go dizzy from cognitive dissonance: There is no way to square his statements with the results he has worked so actively to achieve.

Nothing of his record in office can make any sense, if you accept his self-description as a Christian. But dispose of that notion, and matters begin to make sense....

It is clear to me from the objective record that Obama's deepest sympathies are with Islam, not Christianity.

He himself has said, in his book Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance, that the call of the muezzin to evening prayer is the sweetest sound he has ever heard in his life.

As a boy, he was schooled in an Indonesian madrasa. It is well known that madrasa schooling is principally dedicated to students' complete memorization of the Qu'ran, in the original Arabic (regardless of what language one speaks in one's native country). There's typically not a whole lot of "reading, writing, and arithmetic" going on in such schools.

I wonder how much of these texts Obama might have memorized....

If there is anybody out there who doubts Obama is hostile to Christianity, then such a person will need to explain to me why it is that Obama has chosen to insult and rebuke Pope Francis by inviting transgender, gay-marriage and pro-choice advocates to the official events hosting the pontiff on his visit to Washington next week.

There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Obama intends this gross violation of standard diplomatic protocol as a slap in the face of U.S. Catholicism and Christianity more generally.

So, is Obama a "Christian?" To my mind: HELL NO. There is not a single shred of evidence to back up his claim.

Thank you so very much for writing, dear xzins!

[hosepipe]

he’s a tare.

---

The wind blows them..

[trisham]

Well said, betty boop.

[betty boop]

Thanks trisham!

[Georgia Girl 2]

Well lets see”

Barry won’t appear if there is a cross anywhere in the room similar to a vampire avoiding sunlight.

Barry’s first year in office blew off the National Prayer Breakfast but threw an Eid al fitar dinner.

Barry wears a ring inscribed with the Shahada. “there is no God but Islam”

Barry surrounds himself with members of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Barry bows and kisses the ring of the King of Saudi Arabia.

Oh crikes somebody else chime in. :-)

[marron]

I don’t think anyone believes he is a Christian. If he was a Christian they would never have elected him.

But they expect you to pretend he is one. This is a way of disarming you. By accepting as true something you know is not true, and doing it again and again, you eventually lose all will to resist.

[high info voter]

Did you know that We Now Have a Muslim Government? ... John Brennan, current head of the CIA converted to Islam while stationed in Saudi Arabia. Obama's top advisor, Valerie Jarrett,~~is a Muslim who was born in Iran where her parents still live. Hillary Clinton's top advisor, Huma Abedin,~~is a Muslim, whose mother and brother are involved in the now outlawed Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Assistant Secretary for Policy Development for Homeland Security, Arif Aikhan,~~is a Muslim. Homeland Security Advisor, Mohammed Elibiary,~~ is a Muslim. Obama advisor and founder of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, Salam al-Marayati,~~ is a Muslim. Obama's Sharia Czar, Imam Mohamed Magid, of the Islamic Society of North America~~ is a Muslim. Advisory Council on Faith-Based Neighbor-hood Partnerships, Eboo Patel,~~is a Muslim. And last but not least, our closet Muslim himself,~~ Barack Hussein Obama. It's questionable if Obama ever officially took the oath of office when he was sworn in. He didn't repeat the oath properly to defend our nation and our Constitution. Later the Democrats claimed he was given the oath again….in private? CIA director John Brennan took his oath on a copy of the Constitution,~~not a Bible. Congressman, Keith Ellison took his oath on a copy ~~of the Qur'an. Congresswoman Michele Bachman was vilified and almost tarred and feathered by Democrats when she voiced her concern about Muslims taking over our government. Considering all these appointments, it would explain why Obama and his minions are systematically destroying our nation, supporting radical Muslim groups worldwide, opening our southern border, and turning a blind eye to the genocide being perpetrated on Christians all over Africa and the Middle East. The more damage Obama does, the more arrogant he's become! Our nation and our government has been infiltrated by people who want to destroy us. It WILL only get worse. Plus John Kerry's son in law is an Iranian muslim.

To President Obama: It was you who told at an Islamic dinner - "I am one of you." It was you who on ABC News referenced - "My Muslim faith." It was you who gave $100 million in U.S. taxpayer funds to re-build foreign mosques. It was you who wrote that in the event of a conflict -"I will stand with the Muslims." It was you who assured the Egyptian Foreign Minister that - "I am a Muslim." It was you who bowed in submission before the Saudi King. It was you who sat for 20 years in a Liberation Theology Church condemning Christianity and professing Marxism. It was you who exempted Muslims from penalties under Obamacare that the rest of us have to pay. It was you who purposefully omitted - "endowed by our Creator" - from your recitation of The Declaration Of Independence. It was you who mocked the Bible and Jesus Christ's Sermon On The Mount while repeatedly referring to the 'HOLY' Quran. It was you who traveled the Islamic world denigrating the United States Of America. It was you who instantly threw the support of your administration behind the building of the Ground Zero Victory mosque overlooking the hallowed crater of the World Trade Center. It was you who refused to attend the National Prayer Breakfast, but hastened to host an Islamic prayer breakfast at the WH. It was you who ordered both Georgetown Univ. and Notre Dame to shroud all vestiges of Jesus Christ BEFORE you would agree to go there to speak, but in contrast, you have NEVER requested that the mosques you have visited adjust their decor. It was you who appointed anti-Christian fanatics to your Czar Corps. It was you who appointed rabid Islamists to Homeland Security. It was you who said that NASA's "foremost mission" was an outreach to Muslim communities. It was you who as an Illinois Senator were the ONLY individual who would speak in favor of infanticide. It was you who were the first President not to give a Christmas Greeting from the WH, and went so far as to hang photos of Chairman Mao on the WH tree. It was you who curtailed the military tribunals of all Islamic terrorists. It was you who refused to condemn the Ft. Hood killer as an Islamic terrorist. It is you who has refused to speak-out concerning the horrific executions of women throughout the Muslim culture, but yet, have submitted Arizona to the UN for investigation of hypothetical human-rights abuses. It was you who when queried in India refused to acknowledge the true extent of radical global Jihadists, and instead profusely praised Islam in a country that is 82% Hindu and the victim of numerous Islamic terrorists assaults. It was you who funneled $900 Million in U.S. taxpayer dollars to Hamas. It was you who ordered the USPS to honor the MUSLIM holiday with a new commemorative stamp. It was you who directed our UK Embassy to conduct outreach to help "empower" the British Muslim community. It was you who embraced the fanatical Muslim Brotherhood in your quest to overthrow the Egyptian President, Hosni Mubarak. It was you who funded mandatory Arabic language and culture studies in Grammar schools across our country. It is you who follows the Muslim custom of not wearing any form of jewelry during Ramadan. It is you who departs for Hawaii over the Christmas season so as to avoid past criticism for NOT participating in seasonal WH religious events. It was you who was un-characteristically quick to join the chorus of the Muslim Brotherhood to depose Egypt's Hosni Mubarak, formerly America's strongest ally in North Africa; but, remain muted in your non-response to the Brotherhood led slaughter of Egyptian Christians.

[betty boop]

This is a way of disarming you. By accepting as true something you know is not true, and doing it again and again, you eventually lose all will to resist.

Maybe that is Obama's "disarming" intention; but it doesn't work with me. I just get increasingly "royally p*ssed off"; and that anger — and the concomitant will to resist — just builds up over time.

I'm increasingly resentful and restive that such games — which entail the presupposition that Obama's policies could ever succeed in overcoming, of "transforming" the world of actual reality — are being played on us in the first place.

As a Christian and as an American, I am the natural enemy of everything that Obama stands for.

But Obama and his like-minded coterie of psychopathic "progressive" enablers and codependents, will denigrate me as a "Bible-clinging, gun-toting" (fair 'nuff so far), knuckle-dragging cultural neanderthal — therefore, as someone ineligible, disqualified from the get-go to participate in the public discourse. I and people like me are to be "censored," rebuked, whenever possible destroyed. Which expectation, although essential to the success of his "policies," entirely subverts the plain language of the First Amendment, not to mention the entire uniquely American idea that my liberty, indeed all my natural rights as a human being, obtain directly from God, and are to be lived "under" God....

The upshot is: Left Progressives can say that kind of thing about me all day long if they want to; but absent they outright kill me, they can't shut me up.

Just my two-cents' worth. Thank you ever so much for writing, dear brother in Christ!

[Zman516]

Right on, Swede Girl.

He was raised and mentored by communists, so he is an atheist at heart. He tells whatever lies he needs to in order to achieve whatever political goal he has at the moment. After all, to him and all lefties, “The Ends Justify The Means”. Lying is a very effective “means”.

[caww]

Now THAT was an enjoyable read!....

[betty boop]

Thanks caww for your kind words.

[betty boop]

Question for my fellow FReepers: if a candidate was to respond as above, how would you react?

Hi markomalley! Hope we might pick up part two of the perplexities surrounding our president as discussed in the excellent essay at the top.

Part 1 was Obama's religion; Part 2 dealt with his citizenship status. So many perplexities!

Which only came to the fore when Gov. Chris Christie demanded a salute from The Donald as to the authenticity of both. In other words, Christie was demanding from The Donald allegiance to, and promotion of, generally prevailing legends that continue to go unexamined let alone explained.

The Donald is no fool. He realized he should not allow himself to be drawn into that double-headed quagmire. He very astutely took a pass instead. And now he's being blamed for not coming to the president's aid!!! With Christie cast into the role of chief blamer!!! Go figure!!!

Anyhoot, I took a stab at Part 1 — Obama's religion, here.

I also have certain unresolved perplexities regarding the Part 2 subject matter, his citizenship status. Recently I've been researching U.S. citizenship issues, mainly through the lens of so-called birthright citizenship. I learned a lot besides, as to how the Supreme Court regards citizenship matters more generally.

There has been a quite recent test of what it means to be a "natural-born citizen" of the United States of America. Ironically, it occurred during the 2008 presidential election, in the face-off between John McCain and Barack Obama.

John McCain's eligibility for POTUS was challenged, on the grounds that he was born in Panama. Therefore, this line of reasoning goes, he is NOT a "natural-born citizen."

But of course, such "reasoners" were trying to conflate "natural-born" with "native-born." John McCain is not a "native-born" citizen, because he was not born on U.S. soil. But the Court found that he was, indeed, a "natural born" American citizen, because he was the child of two American citizens (whether natural-born themselves or naturalized). The Court's reasoning was based in Law-of-Nations and common-law theory, and the U.S. Constitution, not to mention Supreme Court precedent going back to 1873.

What is perplexing is that Barack Obama's citizenship status as "natural-born" was never similarly questioned. Even though he tells us, in Dreams from My Father, that he was born in Kenya. And even though he has relatives there who gave statements to the press that they were present at his birth — in Kenya.

Which would make him a citizen of Kenya, by inheritance from his father. That's how the Law of Nations and the Kenyan government regarded the issue.

But on his mother's side, I have to conclude that he was also a natural-born American citizen; because he was the child of an American citizen, without respect to his actual geographical place of birth.

Which would make Obama the first president in the history of the United States to hold dual citizenship. Which raises an interesting question: To which country of which he is a citizen the country to which he is giving his undivided loyalty and allegiance? Which historically has been the core definition of what it means to be a citizen.

Leave that matter aside for now. What I find additionally perplexing is, if Obama is a natural-born American citizen in the same sense that John McCain is a natural-born citizen, then why all the fuss about constructing the narrative that he was born in Hawaii? And how could such a construction even be possible?

Some odd facts have been reported. Obama's grandmother, Madelyn Stanley, allegedly was at some time employed by the Hawaii department of statistics. I have no details as to what her capacity was there. But the question occurs, did she have access to resources that could have allowed her to construct a passable "official" public record of her grandson, and in particular his place of birth? And, if so, could she have had a motive for doing that?

One might imagine that she was aware of the Kenyan birth of her grandson, and just wanted to make sure he was thoroughly "Americanized."

Assuming such things happened, for all the passibility of the constructed narrative, there still remains the problem of production of an actual, "long-form" birth certificate.

And heaven knows, Obama kept us a long time waiting for that. And when it was finally produced, a number of expert analysts suspected the document was inauthentic, on technical grounds.

It seems every scrap of personal information about Obama is under seal: his academic records, his selective service records, his social security records, passport history, you name it. On the basis of his public-record history, this man doesn't even exist. He is Mr. Anonymous.

So why produce a birth certificate, when he doesn't need to — to attest to a natural-born status which he has already directly inherited from his American mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, from the moment of his birth?

In conclusion, I have more questions than answers. Must leave matters rest there, for now.

Once again, markomalley, thank so very much for your splendid essay/post!