Posted on 12/14/2015 9:44:08 AM PST by oh8eleven
That being said, I grew up in Cincinnati adoring Pete. I defended him initially over the allegations because he vehemently denied them. Then the truth was out and he even admitted guilt.
Pete is his own worst enemy. He still shifts and hems and haws on accepting responsibility and he still hangs out in gambling venues. Manfred cited these two items as key to his decision.
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The decision is clear then. Rose should immediately be inducted into the MLB Hall of Fame for his athletic abilities on the field and should suffer a lifetime ban from the Gamblers Hall of Fame.
The lone incidence where he went into the stands and attacked a fan (who turned out to be handicapped) he was not punished because of witness statements proving the extreme extent of abuse the fan had been heaping on Cobb all game long. Opposing players even said they would have throttled the guy long before Cobb did had he been abusing them in such a manner. Plus, when Cobb realized that the loud mouth had no hands, he stopped hitting him and apologized.
Were there folks who hated Cobb and wanted to make him look bad? did Al Stump villianize Cobb to sell books? Of course, but in several cases, he didn't need their help.
From The Smithsonian magazine:
“Stories of Cobb�€™s racial intolerance were well-documented. In 1907 during spring training in Augusta, Georgia, a black groundskeeper named Bungy, whom Cobb had known for years, attempted to shake Cobb�€™s hand or pat him on the shoulder. The overly familiar greeting infuriated Cobb, who slapped him and chased him from the clubhouse. When Bungy�€™s wife tried to intervene, Cobb turned around and choked her until teammates pried his hands off her neck. In 1908 in Detroit, a black laborer castigated him after he accidentally stepped into some freshly poured asphalt. Cobb assaulted the laborer on the spot, knocking him to the ground. The ballplayer was found guilty of battery, but a friendly judge suspended his sentence. Cobb paid the laborer $75 to avoid a civil suit.
Just three months before the three men attacked him in Detroit in 1912, Cobb assaulted a New York Highlanders fan at Hilltop Park in New York City. The fan, Claude Lueker, was missing all of one hand and three fingers on the other from a printing press accident, but he spent the entire game heckling the Detroit players. After enduring taunts that were “reflecting on my mother�€™s color and morals,†Cobb reported in his autobiography, the Georgia native had had enough. He jumped the rail along the third-base side of the field and climbed 12 rows of seats to get to Lueker, whom he slammed to the ground and beat senseless. Someone screamed for Cobb to stop, pointing out that the man had no hands. “I don�€™t care if he has no feet!†Cobb yelled back, stomping Lueker until park police pulled him off. American League president Ban Johnson, who was at the game, suspended Cobb for 10 days.”
On the plus side for Cobb
“it should be noted that Cobb�€™s views on race evolved after he retired from baseball. In 1952, when many whites from the Deep South were still opposed to blacks mixing with whites both in and out of baseball, Cobb was not one of them. “Certainly it is O.K. for them to play,†Cobb told a reporter. “I see no reason in the world why we shouldn�€™t compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man, in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life.†In his last year of life, Cobb may have shown a cantankerous side, but it seemed reserved for the state of baseball, which he saw as over-reliant on the home run and lacking in players of all-around skill. Willie “Mays is the only man in baseball I’d pay to see play,†he said not long before he died.”
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-knife-in-ty-cobbs-back-65618032/?no-ist=
MLB and Pete Rose both probably get more notoriety for him being banned from MLB. The HoF and Pete Rose both get more folks talking about the HoF and Pete Rose simply by him not being in the HoF part.
Freegards
That which we calla Rose
By any other name would still be banned.
What about players who used steroids?
I agree with you, with one caveat: Shoeless Joe Jackson needs to go in first.
I am for banning them too.
“Love him or hate him, (IMHO) Rose belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame.”
He did belong in he HOF until he betted against the team he was managing. Dishonesty, cheating and compromising the integrity of the game should disqualify you from the HOF. All those guys that took steroids should never be allowed in either.
“That’s MLB’s problem. They say gambling is their biggest no no but they’ve climbed in bed with gamblers. EVERY MLB team has an official on line fantasy baseball gambling partner.”
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Absolutely irrelevant and that has NOTHING to do with the Pete Rose situation.
Rose’s repeated decisions to bet on baseball and getting in deep with his bookie put him in a position to throw games to pay his debts, and thus ruin the integrity of the game.
Under no circumstances, NONE, should Pete Rose be allowed in the Hall of Fame, FOREVER.
There isn’t even a credible argument to the contrary.
He’s a total scumbag. He shamed the sport. Hope they never overturn the ban. Just like the steroids cheats like Bonds and Clemens. Screw them
Horrible argument. He never bet on his team to lose?! So he’s got ten grand on a game to win. He will leave in a pitcher too long to get that one win. Manage his players with that single goal in mind. Screw the next night’s game right? Screw the pitching rotation, I need to win this game and make my “dime” .Oh that player needs a rest at this point in the season? Screw that, I need that left handed bat right now. Need that extra run or I’m out $10,000.
Give me a break. Pete is a scumbag.
From the time he broke into the majors in 1963 until he retired in 1986, Rose amassed 4,256 hits (1st all- time), 746 doubles (2nd all-time) and 2,165 runs (fifth all-time). He played for three World Series Champions, and was named the MVP of the 1975 Series. Those are un-godly numbers. They are the numbers of a Hall of Famer.
Unfortunately, he also ignored Major League Baseball’s Rule 21 (d)
Rule 21 (d) is posted on the clubhouse door in every major league stadium, and has been for years. Rose probably walked by those signs 5,000 times during his career.
Rule 21 (d), which states:
d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.
Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.
It doesn’t say... unless you’ve got 4000 hits or 700 home runs or won 300 games or have 3000 strike outs. It says ANY PLAYER....He chose to ignore the signs, he chose to bet on baseball, and he’s being punished in accordance with the rule. He also chose to lie about his actions for 14 years, and even after acknowledging them, still doesn’t seem to understand that his mistake wasn’t failing to apologize sooner. It’s that he bet on baseball in the first place. How gutless.
Rose�¿½€™s repeated decisions to bet on baseball and getting in deep with his bookie put him in a position to throw games to pay his debts, and thus ruin the integrity of the game.
Under no circumstances, NONE, should Pete Rose be allowed in the Hall of Fame, FOREVER.
There isn�¿½€™t even a credible argument to the contrary.
Rose gambled on baseball, MLB is now in the business of baseball gambling; absolutely irrelevant and has NOTHING to do with each other? That makes as much sense as 0 claiming Islamic terrorist has nothing to do with Islam.
I've never said that Rose should be in the hall. What I have done is point out the hypocrisy and self righteous chest thumping by MLB (and some fans)who won't apply the same standard to several guys in the hall as they are to Rose. There are guys in the Hall right now who not only bet on baseball but evidence indicates they threw games. The Coke addicts of the 80’s put themselves in the same position to be blackmailed into throwing games. The PED users hurt the game's credibility and ran off fans.
Rose has earned the outrage and the ban, but we're talking about not letting him into a club that has more than its share of bad actors, not the sainthood.
Think of it this way. Rose’s penalty is not so much about the gambling itself. Rose’s penalty is about him severely compromising the integrity of the game.
If a fan bets on the game it does NOT compromise the integrity of the game.
If a manager bets on the game it DOES compromise the integrity of the game. Rose got in a huge debt with his bookie. That put him in a position to compromise his integrity. Integrity is sacred to the game.
That is how the two are different and have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Clear now?
Barred From Baseball: Rose Is Most Famous, but He Is Far From Alone
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/sports/baseball/others-banned-by-major-league-baseball.html?_r=0
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