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“My point was to make clear that the statement in post #20 (”If someone is coming to kill you, rise against him and kill him first.”) is not found in the Old Testament (or in the New) as some might have wrongly assumed.”

It IS Torah, which multiple people explained to you. That’s where that statement comes from.

All the laws this country has regarding self-defense — where do you think they originate from? Are speed limits in the US Constitution? Is telling your kids to be in bed by 9PM in your bible?

Everything is online for everyone to see. http://www.sefaria.org/explore is just one example.

It IS Torah

Sigh....Not so fast.

The Torah (at least the written Torah) traditionally refers to the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy—i.e., the first five books of the Old Testament. The Talmud consists of the Mishnah (Oral Law) and the Gemara (Jewish commentary on the Mishnah). While these may be considered to be on equal footing with the written Torah among many Jews, they are not considered to be so among Christians. They would have been part of the religious background when Jesus said, “'...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'” (Matthew 15:9)

The statement in question ("If someone is coming to kill you, rise against him and kill him first.") is part of the Talmud. It is not found in the written Torah. It is not found in the Christian Bible, either in the Old Testament or the New Testament. That was my point.

The verse in Deuteronomy that was referred to as proof (which, I believe is not the verse usually used to justify the statement in question) says this (with the verses immediately before and after added for context):

“But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor; because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.” (Deuteronomy 22:25-27)

The statement in question is not found in these verses (and cannot reasonably be implied from these verses). The statement in question is not stated anywhere in either the Old Testament or the New Testament. We might argue as to whether it is wise policy or not, or perhaps that it may even be implied from certain passages in the Bible. But it is not stated in the Bible, and I did not want people to be left with the impression that it is. If you think that it is, please let me know. Please provide book, chapter, and verse. Thanks. (I will be running errands for awhile, but I will gladly accept correction tonight when I return.)