Posted on 01/03/2018 9:20:33 PM PST by massmike
The curve where Amtrak Cascades 501 derailed Dec. 18, killing three people, was identified years ago as an obstacle to Washington state’s dream of creating high-speed rail. The corridor between Lakewood and Nisqually “includes unsuitable sharp curvature,” said the state’s long-range plan, written in 2006. “A new connection, largely on structure because of differences in elevation, with a speed limit of one hundred mph will be required.”
Even with $800 million in Obama administration stimulus money, Washington state didn’t rebuild it.
The state’s stimulus contracts, released through a public-records request, show the state made no promises to change the curve, nor did it promise to create a 100-mph corridor.
Bruce Agnew, director of the Cascadia Center think tank, recalls the state “talking about very tough negotiations in 2008 and 2009,” over where to spend stimulus funds, involving BNSF Railway and the Federal Railroad Administration.
Officials weren’t going to spend money to straighten the curve if that drained money for the new Tacoma-Lakewood bypass. “This is their centerpiece,” Agnew said.
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.com ...
“...numerous safety margins built into everything precisely so that safety doesn’t depend upon the humans in the system having to be perfect.”
First off, for both participants in the discussion, each of you make good points with the current bottom line being that the train engineer’s error resulted in the fatal crash. To the extent of this conversation, I agree. Root Cause Analysis says to ask the next question: Why?
Why did the error occur? Multiple answers are possible and each lead to the next question of Why. In my area of work in manufacturing, the Japanese concept Poka Yoke is the primary approach to avoiding error by making it impossible to make the wrong choice. It is a process design concept that looks at each step/choice in a process to determine how to remove the error option.
For American railroading, there has been a long process to deploy Positive Train Control (PTC) as the answer that would cause the system to intervene if the operator did not act to a particular standard on speed or braking. This still avoids the design issue pointed out in several posts in the thread that a slow-speed section in the middle of two high-speed sections is a design flaw. As the Japanese would say, it is still possible to make a mistake with human error and PTC system failure. Remove the opportunity for error is the only solution.
Proof that Marxist run governments like those in Washington State, Oregon and California - KILL!
It was a Titanic on rails scenario, officials had a poor training period and ignored the engineering aspect of speed and curves thinking they were unsinkable.Or derailable if its a viable word.
Will make a decent movie in the near future.
Reroute the track 3000’ on either side of the highway - and put in an angled bridge that is 6 times the length of the existing one.
Although doing the Environmental Impact Statement for disturbing the hundreds of fir trees (out of approximately 1.5 billion in Washington state) would probably eat up most of the budget - leaving nothing for the actual work.
I did a search of what the price tag is for a railway bridge. Still don’t know - but see that the price has now doubled to get light rail across the I-90 floating bridge between Seattle and Bellevue to the east - $710 million.
Once it gets built I need to remind myself to give them a few months of practice before taking that bridge! The floating bridge is in different sections and floats on the large lake, with the sections able to move a bit independently. I’m guessing laying iron track will be a challenge.
there were other reasons for the new route. The old leg was on a BNSF freight track. BNSF track, BNSF freight trains have priority of the Amtrak Cascade train. One section of the old run is between Nisqually Reach (a body of water)and a series of cliffs. Rocks, sometimes very large would fall on the tracks. This had been a maintenance problem for years. The new route, no freight trains, no rocks and it saves time.
Yeah, that’s the amount of work involved in making that a 100mph stretch of track. A ton of work and expense. Not much chance of it happening. Certainly not in the time frame given.
I believe there used to be two rail lines across the bridge, and they used the width of the bridge to make the curve a little gentler than it was for the one rail line.
“Wouldn’t have needed to straighten out the track for $415 million if they hired people who could stand a proper watch”
If they don’t get the higher speed rail line, then the whole project of moving the route in the first place makes no sense.
As it is, it is only 10 minutes faster than the old scenic route. Even if they straighten that curve, it might be 15 minutes faster.
A lot of money and effort to lose the scenery and gain a few minutes.
Over a hundred mil spent to save about 10 to 15 minutes. IF the trip is on time. That’s not a wise use of public money. It’s a boondoggle.
AFAIK, passenger trains still have priority over freight trains.
I thought the track belonged to BNSF?
The Amtrak trains were running on rented tracks with expectations beyond the capability for the speeds projected.
Stimulus funds spent on the tracks would have been misappropriation of public funds
Found the following just now - the engineer is suing Amtrak!
Lawyers for Garrick Freeman of Bellevue, Washington, say Amtrak failed to provide a safe work environment. The Dec. 18 crash near DuPont, Washington, killed three and injured dozens.
Freeman, who was in the front of the train at the time of the crash, suffered a crushed pelvis and cracked ribs. He remains in a rehabilitation hospital and is unable to work.
Freeman was the conductor. But wasn't he up with the engineer? If so, why? And the engineer hasn't been ID'd in any article I can find.
He has precedent for accidents caused by company orders
The Wreck of the Old 97
Well they gave him his orders at Monroe Virginia sayin’ Steve you’re way behind time
This is not 38 this is old 97 you must put her into Spencer on time
Then he turned around and said to his black greasy fireman shovel on a little more coal
And when we cross that White Oak Mountain watch old 97 roll
But it’s a mighty rough road from Lynchburg to Danville
With a line on a three mile grade
It was on that grade that he lost his air brakes see what a jump he made
He was goin’ down the grade makin’ 90 miles an hour his whistle broke into a scream
He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle
A scalded to death by the steam
Then the telegram come to Washington station and this is how it read
Oh that brave engineer that run old 97 he’s a layin’ in old Danville dead
So now all you ladies you better take a warnin’ from this time on and learn
Never speak harsh words to your true lovin’ husband
He may leave you and never retur
Hold on - this guy was a conductor (ticket collector?) - not the engineer - sorry!
Heh - another article said he normally works in the body of the train cars - but was up front in the engineer at the time of the accident. It wouldn’t surprise me if HE was the one that distracted the engineer.
“Heh - this is really cool. What does that lever do? What happens if you push this button!? You must get paid a lot. How can I become an engineer? Where’s the gas pedal?”
CRASH!
“Amtrak should have never let me up there to bother him. I’m suing!” (Hmm - like the protestor in CA that got hit by a car as she ran out into the freeway - “The college should have never let us protest! I’m suing them!”
time saving was not the only reason the new 14 mile route was built.
You forgot to mention your experience as a highway/railroad engineer...
Any accident would just take out the highway supports.
As in highways, railroad alignments are always designed to tolerate speeds in excess of the planned speed limits. If higher speeds are ever contemplated, mandatory reconstruction is just common sense, even for non-engineers.
Allowing politicians to act in total ignorance is deliberate criminal negligence! Too many variables.
Easily determined. Highly detailed Right of Way maps, like highways, indeed every "property" deed, is recorded as a Public record.
Re-doing that section of track would be expensive AND a traffic nightmare.
That section of I-5 is congested enough already. First problem is its proximity to JBLM. Second is that this section is on a hill coming up out of the Nisqually river .
To do it right will take years, and drivers in the area will scream like stuck pigs if there are more delays on I-5.
I live in the People’s Soviet of Washington.
Its about as corrupt as Louisiana was. Not as bad as Illinois, but it is sharking its way to No. 1.
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