5 Troubling Lessons For America From Ancient Rome

Townhall.com ^ | March 3, 2018 | John Hawkins

[Lazamataz]

There is also the factor of lead pipes and the fact that Romans shaved lead into food as an artificial sweetener.

[DeweyCA]

According to George Washington and John Adams, our Constitution was made for a virtuous people, based on religion and morality. We are no longer a virtuous people. Many have rejected religion and morality. Our Constitution can not constrain the growing evil within us.

[sima_yi]

I wasn't referring to the fall of the Empire, but rather the fall of the Republic.

Gaius Julius Caesar was a member of the populares, what we today would call a populist. He was opposed by the senatorial establishment, again, much of what we see today.

Of course, the parallels are not exact, but in broad outline (members of the government using the government to enrich themselves, for example), they are.

[Oatka]

My response to that has always been "The Balkans have diversity; fat lot of good it did them".

I remember reading some politician in Bosnia-Herzegovina bragging about how the different cultures all got along.

Then Tito died.

[Albion Wilde]

There is also the factor of lead pipes and the fact that Romans shaved lead into food as an artificial sweetener.

That's crazy. /s

[Lazamataz]

Actually, they did shave lead into food. Children eat lead paint chips because they are sweet.

[Lazamataz]

I wasn't QUITE right, but close. Here's a better treatment.

[steve86]

Have you been licking battery terminals again?

[Lazamataz]

They used to lick battery terminals in Ancient Rome.

[fella]

Good points.

[nicollo]

Well, Gibbon thought the rise of Christianity led to Rome’s downfall. Clearly THAT won’t be a problem for the USA...

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

IT was widely understood that our individual God given freedoms were for moral people. The same freedoms are disastrous in the hands of those who know no morality

[Paal Gulli]

"The US was key to achieving WWII's Unconditional Surrender over Axis powers because we were then the world's economic power-house."

The country of Japan did not surrender unconditionally. The Potsdam Declaration only required that the Japanese armed forces surrender unconditionally, not the greater country.

"...We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action...."

MacArthur quietly gave the Japanese terms but publicly proclaimed it an "unconditional" surrender. Unlike Germany, after the war the government of Japan remained sovereign, independent, and largely intact. The Japanese Emperor remained on his throne and his subjects remained free to worship him despite his being coerced by MacArthur into publicly rejecting his own divinity.

Mac believed that the civil unrest that would follow forcing the Emperor to step down would have delayed the rebuilding of Japan by several years, and might well have led to more bloodshed on both sides. So he saw granting them terms as a necessary evil. At the same time he realized that his permissive attitude toward what many Americans would have considered pagan idolatry would not sit well back home. IF they found out. So he saw to it that they didn't.

Despite his probable complicity, the war crimes tribunal didn't go after the Emperor for the same reason that Mac left him on his throne. It was the cost of not re-igniting the war.

Mac also forced the government to cease its official support for the Shinto religion, yet 80% of Japanese today practice Shinto, so you can see how effective that was.

[Albion Wilde]

I was trying for a joke there, because lead poisoning makes one crazy. Your info was good. My joke was lame.

[rdb3]

Divide is the root word of diversity. Where’s the strength in dividing?

[BroJoeK]

sima_yi: "I wasn't referring to the fall of the Empire, but rather the fall of the Republic."

Ah, so we're talking about the Ides of March, not Attila the Hun?
Then my bad, and I agree with the analysis here.

But would also add a thought: the Roman Republic was a victim of its own success.
It simply was not intended or designed to rule the largest, most diverse empire yet seen.
And the old Republic did not entirely disappear, for example, the Senate continued long after Rome's empire had disappeared.

[BroJoeK]

Paal Gulli: "The country of Japan did not surrender unconditionally.
The Potsdam Declaration only required that the Japanese armed forces surrender unconditionally, not the greater country."

Thanks for a great post.
The same can be said of the Brits' unconditional surrender at Yorktown and Confederates' unconditional surrender at Appomattox Court House.
In fact, they were granted a number of conditions.

My point remains: US relative economic might today is not what it was then.

[Jim Noble]

My response to that has always been "The Balkans have diversity; fat lot of good it did them".

Keep it simple: Diversity+Proximity=Violence.

[farming pharmer]

Interesting post, thanks!

[sima_yi]

It simply was not intended or designed to rule the largest, most diverse empire yet seen.

I agree with that 100%.

For anyone interested in the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire, I highly recommend Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series. It is, of course, historical fiction, but she has done PhD thesis worthy background research.