Russian military aircraft downed by Syrian forces, killing 15; Moscow blames Israeli aggression

Fox News ^ | 18SEP18 | Amy Lieu

[familyop]

"The Israeli pilots were using the Russian aircraft as a shield and pushed it into the line of fire of the Syrian defense," Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said in a statement...Russia said it would make an "appropriate response" to Israel...Russia said Israel did not warn it of its operation over Latakia province until one minute before the strikes, which did not give the Russian plane enough time to escape...Israeli and French fighters were attacking targets at the time, Moscow said, according to Reuters.

[familyop]

Two contradictory stories to choose from there.

[familyop]

Interesting. Maybe it was there to aid Assad's AA batteries in trying to shoot down planes.

Ilyushin Il-18
Wikipedia
"Il-20M Coot-A ELINT electronic, radar reconnaissance version. Also known as the Il-18D-36 Bizon."

[Gen.Blather]

Latikia province is on the coast, so it is at least possible that the Israelis used the Russian plane as cover for the attack. Warning the Russians with more than one minute would give the Russian technicians warning to activate and fire their air defenses. I can’t believe that Russia, who is responsible for not only protecting their client state with air defense, but has been repeatedly embarrassed by that defenses’ failures, would not use the warning to shoot down the Israeli jets.

It is also possible that the repeated failures of the air defense system have resulted in a shoot-on-warning policy that endangers any plane in the air, regardless of the plane’s owners or origin. In any case, if there was a failure on the part of the Russian air defense system, it will be glossed over and buried.

[familyop]

Ah. Here’s some good info in an earlier thread.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3688390/posts?page=18#18

[Ronald_Magnus]

A U S Navy EP-3E knockoff.

[Pecos]

"The Israeli pilots were using the Russian aircraft as a shield and pushed it into the line of fire of the Syrian defense"

I'm really not sure how that could ever be physically possible. But then, I'm not a Russian propagandist.

[alloysteel]

“Pushed” into line of fire?

The Syrians are basically trigger-happy, and if it moves, shoot. If it shoots, move.

There is no safe haven in that tormented land.

[familyop]

Information on what likely happened.

lennutrajektoor
https://twitter.com/lennutrajektoor/status/1041991837995741185

[rbg81]

Israel to Russians: Your puny missile systems belong to us now Bitchez!!

This is very humiliating for the Russians. This accusation makes them sound like a whining baby. Their technology, tactics and training (assuming the Syrian AD crew was competent) probably suck. The Israelis just took advantage of it. As the saying goes: All’s fair in luv and war.

[familyop]

Another thing that’s interesting is that Syria’s Russian AA can’t differentiate between enemy and friendly targets.

[Spiridon]

Where does all this hatred of Russia that is used against President Trump come from?

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Russia buys billions of dollars worth of weapons from Israel. There are hundreds of thousands of Russian citizens living in Israel, over a million Israeli citizens who speak Russian as their first language, and over a hundred thousand Israelis living in Russia.

Little to be gained by either side antagonizing the other.

[rbg81]

Little to be gained by either side antagonizing the other.

---

I don’t disagree. The problem is Assad enabling Iranian proxies in Syria and Putin being cozy with the whole thing.

[McGruff]

From Russian MoD briefing on downed Il-20 in Syria

Pretty tricky if they did use that plane for cover.

[ThunderSleeps]

Interesting. The S-200 is listed (internet sources) as being a semi-active radar homing missile. That means a fire-control radar, an "illuminator" would have to be intentionally lighting up the target for the missile to home in on. (eg. some systems use a continuous wave radar "searchlight" for such purposes) It is hard to believe Syrian air defenses did not have a positive, known-friendly track on the Russian aircraft and thus would not have engaged/illuminated it. Confusion/mistakes are possible, maybe, with some sophisticated help by the IDF... But that would be an extremely poor system and use of the S-200 system to be spoofed that way.

There are rumors that it has a "home on jam" mode to engage ELINT and AWACS type aircraft - which would seem to be more likely what it did. (if it was an S-200 that shot down the aircraft)

One possible scenario: The IDF integrated attack package was using various jamming and active measures to screen the attack aircraft. Syrian air defenses, having already experienced this and been "defeated" by it decide to use the S-200 in home-on-jam mode. This either knocks out the IDF emitter, or forces it to shut down, clearing their radar. (in theory anyway, multiple jammers complicate even that scenario) However, due to IDF jamming and active measures, and amazingly poor coordination with their Russian partners...don't realize the Russian aircraft is also in the area. Now, perhaps the S-200 screwed up, perhaps the IDF was smart in geometry and timing of active/passive modes...boom. In one incident the IDF get's their mission done, embarrasses Syria & Russia, confirms to the intel world the "rumored" home-on-jam mode of the S-200, and verifies their tactics work (at least for now).

Either way, actively engage it, or engage it accidentally in home-on-jam (emitter)... It is a failure of S-200 system and the training, tactics, and procedures of the Syrian air defense troops.

[pepsionice]

I would be betting on the scenario that no one from the Russian AF spoke to the Syrian Air Defense headquarters nor laid out any flights in that particular area. The Syrians are probably hyped up to shoot down any western or Turkish fighter.

[captain_dave]

Almost like a Russian version of TWA800

[PapaBear3625]

Israel to Russians: Your puny missile systems belong to us now Bitchez!! This is very humiliating for the Russians. This accusation makes them sound like a whining baby. Their technology, tactics and training (assuming the Syrian AD crew was competent) probably suck. The Israelis just took advantage of it. As the saying goes: All’s fair in luv and war.

The chihuahua can have lots of fun with the bear. Until the bear decides to bite.

The Israelis are playing a dangerous game. I can see Putin deciding to do something unpleasant to them, at a time and place of his choosing.

[rbg81]

Well, it WAS a Syrian AD crew that shot down the plane. The extent to which the Israelis knowingly gamed their AD system is a big question mark (for now).

Speaking of which, I wonder what will happen to that crew? Will they be retrained, disciplined or “disappeared”? If the latter, I can’t imagine other AD crews being too eager to fire in the future.