Posted on 11/19/2018 8:39:26 AM PST by EveningStar
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Abraham Lincoln
November 19, 1863
Gettysburg Address as recited by Jeff Daniels.
Different reports give slightly different numbers, so using my link, if you delete specie from exports and add Union South exports to Confederate cotton you get $230 million from "the South" out of $334 million total exports = 69%.
But "specie" is simply California gold and Nevada silver, as valid then as iron, copper, lead or even oil exports.
The fact is that whale oil was also "not sustainable" and yet in 1860 it was a valid US export.
DiogenesLamp: "But does it really matter to the people making the profits from Southern trade if the number is 75-85% or just 50% like you want to argue? (Though I think i've seen you admit to as much as 63%.) "
I admit only that you can "massage" the numbers to make it seem as if more than 50% of US exports came from Confederate states.
I also admit that Fire Eater propagandists in 1861 claimed as you do the numbers were upwards of 75%.
This is to suggest that the real truth didn't matter to them (or you), only such numbers as would support their pro-secession arguments.
DiogenesLamp: "Do you think the powerful Interests of New York, who even today control the national airwaves and the money spending in Washington DC, care what the percentages are?
They are still losing control of 200 million dollars per year..."
So long as we stipulate the "powerful interests" that sooo excite you were all Northern Democrats who had done business with Southern planters for generations, then sure.
It helps explain why many Northern Democrats eventually flipped from pro-secession to pro-Union.
They realized their livelihoods would be gone if the Confederacy succeeded.
My point all along has been that was a side-show, not the main event in early 1861.
The main event involved constitutional issues around secession and Confederates' military assaults on Union properties & troops.
Thanks.
According to Lieutenant David Porter:
“Mr. President” said I “there is a queer state of things existing in the Navy Department at this time. Mr. Welles is surrounded by officers and clerks, some of whom are disloyal at heart, and if the orders for this expedition should emanate from the Secretary of the Navy, and pass through all the department red tape, the news would be at once flashed over the wires, and Fort Pickens would be lost forever. But if you will issue all the orders from the Executive Mansion, and let me proceed to New York with them, I will guarantee their prompt execution to the letter.
If the Confederates had prior warning about the Star of the West, seems to me they would have made a stronger effort to resist the ships entry into Charleston.
That's actually a good point. Perhaps the resolve to keep more troops out wasn't so strong at that point? This event was early after secession. I think resolve hardened later.
If the Confederates knew about the true nature of the Star of the West cargo, then the firing on the ship by the Morris island battery was planned and intentional, not just a lark by the Citadel cadets.
Wouldn't be the first time people were intentionally misled about what happened and why.
What other forces did they have available on January 9th, 1861? It may have taken them longer to bring up other functioning guns.
Here is a summary from several sources that will help you understand the South of the time you addressed with that quote showing how incorrect it was.
1850-1860 A Decade of Massive Growth in Southern Wealth
The American nation was built on the vast farmlands that stretch from the South to the midlands.
That farmland produced the wealth that funded American industrialization: It permitted the formation of a class of small landholders who, amazingly, could produce more than they could consume. They could sell their excess crops in the east and in Europe and save that money, which eventually became the founding capital of American industry.
Far from stagnating due to its labor pool as many have suggested, the economy of the antebellum South grew quite rapidly. Between 1840 and 1860, per capita income increased more rapidly in the South than in the rest of the nation. From the 1850 census, and state census records in 1858, the value of land and personal property had increased by 57%, while the same measure in the Northeast showed an increase of only 11%.
By 1860 the south attained a level of per capita income which was high by the standards of the time, surpassing the status of many European countries. Although primarily a rural land, the South in 1860 had a lively urban population that included merchants and manufacturers centered in 20 cities with over 10,000 population each, the largest of which were Charleston and New Orleans. The typical southern state farm in 1860 had a valuation of $7,101. In the northern states this figure was $3,311.
With regard to housing, in the North there were 1.13 families per dwelling. In the West, the housing ratio was 1.02, and the South was 1.01. Therefore, the Southern family had at least the same or better accommodations.
By 1860, the South had more than $96,000,000 invested in about 20,000 factories. Nearly 110,000 factory workers were turning out products worth approximately $155,000,000 annually. Many of the laborers toiled in the plants only a portion of their time, for many of the factories still operated on the old domestic or putting-out system.
In 1860 the South was only "backward" industrially compared to the North, by any other standard white Southerners lived quite well, including some manufacturing.
However Bull Snipe's quote from Senator Wigfall was not an outlier -- Southerners did look down on manufacturing as opposed to plantations.
Overall Southern manufacturing was in the range of 10% of the North's.
The obvious explanation is: in cotton states there was too much money to be made planting as opposed to high-risk manufacturing, whereas Northerners had no such easy options.
Neither did King George III.
The issue of using the civilian Star of the West versus a navy ship, i.e., Powhattan, was only which was more likely to succeed without a Confederate response.
"The wicked flee though no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion."
Trying to hide what they were doing implies they knew it was wrong.
The professional classes of the South were not unlike anywhere else, except that their prosperity depended upon the success of the planters. The doctors, lawyers, journalists, and career-military officers - economically and socially tied into the planter economy. By 1850, non-slaveholding white farmers were increasing more rapidly as a group than were slaveholders.
The Southern economy had changed greatly in the decade of the 1850’s. Southern banking had grown extensively. At the end of 1859, the amount of money on hand in Southern banks was 20% higher than in Northeastern banks.
Other industries that the South had historically ignored were receiving investment. Southern shipbuilding had grown to the point that there were in 1859 145 ship-building locations in the South that turned out 43,000 ship tons constructed that year. Southern shipyards were turning out both steam and sail powered vessels for the coastal and river trade.
The harbor in Charleston was being dredged in order to accommodate deep draft vessels used in transatlantic trade. Neither shipbuilding nor dredging was underwritten by any US Treasury money.
In 1853, the Southern states had 26% of the total railroad mileage in the country for 23% of the US population. By 1859 according to the Boston Railway Times, there were 27,000 miles of railroads in the United States and that the Southern states percentage had grown to one third of the total of miles built. In addition to this fact, the railroads in the South had been constructed with private monies instead of Federal subsidies, were paid for, and had been cheaper to construct.
Nonsense, it only implies they knew Confederates were prone to violence, justified or not.
You think the money would have just sat in a bank? Who would do that when the opportunity to profit is so great?
Southerners were not interested in manufacturing.
They would have become so when the talented machine people from the North sought to avail themselves of that source of revenue.
Do you think that unemployed machinists would have been content to sit on their hands in the North?
That money would have been plowed back into cotton production.
The ability to continue doing that was waning. Arable land was becoming increasingly more difficult to obtain. At some point, they would have been left with no choice but to invest elsewhere.
But what about this? People make decisions based on what they think will happen. What would the Northern industrialists have done with the money? They would have built factories. So what do you suppose they thought the South might do with the money? What is the worst fear regarding the South using the money from the perspective of a Northern industrialist?
Perhaps the South would have sat on the money and done nothing with it. If you were a Northern industrialists, would you have wanted to take this chance that they would do nothing, or would you assume the worst?
Connecting rail lines enabled a complete journey from practically any major Southern city on the Atlantic coast all the way to Monroe, Louisiana. A north/south journey followed connecting rail lines from New Orleans to Memphis and beyond the Ohio River.
This railroad capacity, plus the new shipbuilding abilities, meant that the South was becoming highly competitive in the transportation business. Thus, the value of shipping from Southern harbors increased.
All the profitable branches of commercialism that thrived on the movement of Southern goods—freighting, brokering, selling, banking, insurance, storage—found in the Northeast, were receiving increased competition from businessmen in the South. A rapidly growing group of people in the South were the “free blacks”. “Free”, as in Southern black Americans who were not slaves. They had been freed by former masters legally, had bought their way out of slavery from masters who allowed it, or had been born to manumitted slaves.
Most of the 250,000 free blacks lived in Virginia and Maryland, but clusters could also be found in Louisiana, particularly around New Orleans, in North Carolina, Tennessee, and in the border states of Kentucky and Missouri. Free Southern blacks in most communities held unskilled jobs, working usually as farm hands or day laborers. Some were trained as artisans and followed trades such as carpentry or shoemaking. A few became wealthy, like Thomy Lafon, a New Orleans tycoon who amassed a fortune of over $500,000.
Some free blacks became slaveholders themselves. Carter G. Woodson, a pioneer black historian, reported that 4,071 free blacks held 13,446 slaves in 1830. The largest concentration of black slaveholders was around New Orleans (753 owners with 2,351 slaves), Richmond, and in Maryland.
The final class in the South was the black slave. The slave existed in a closed system. Some masters allowed their slaves to purchase their freedom but the majority were the unconditional property of their masters. The master defined the slave's role, provided them with a clear and simple script, judged their performance, and rewarded or punished them per its quality. In this closed system, the slave had only limited contacts with free society. The masters provided the food, clothing, and shelter for their slaves.
Many slaves worked under the “task” system. This system provided the slave with a set of tasks to be completed within a given period. Should those tasks be completed before the given period of time had elapsed, the slave could then spend time in leisure, hire themselves out (with the foreknowledge of the master), or could work producing goods that could be sold, with the slave retaining all of the profits made from the sale. It was under the task system that some slaves were made able to buy their freedom.
In 1860, Virginia had twenty-three colleges enrolling 2,824 students, compared to New York's seventeen colleges listing 2,970 students; and Georgia's thirty-two colleges with 3,302 students that nominally overshadowed the eight Massachusetts colleges with 1,733 registrants.
Thanks for posting that additional information. I will try to remember it.
Specie, i.e., gold or silver was sent overseas or imported for many reasons....loans, payment for goods or services, and re-exports from Central and South American mining interests.
Specie has no bearing on data regarding the value and type of imports and exports. The US Custom houses supplied data on imports, exports, tariffs collected, and un- taxed goods. In all cases, specie is noted separately and is irrelevant to trade by region discussions
Numbers regarding the value of Southern goods produced and exported have been thrown out without regard to accuracy. In order to fully appreciate the concern and apprehension of Northern business and the new President, the figures are presented from the original sources:
The US Treasury and Congressional Borrowing as reported to the US Congress in Dec. of 1859:
In preparation for the President’s state of the union report, Howell Cobb (of Georgia), the Secretary of the Treasury (Buchanan Administration), reported to Congress that based on projected spending, there would be dramatic increases in the debt of the government.
In his state of the Union report of December 5, 1859, President Buchanan’s Secretary of the United States Treasury issued his report stating that for fiscal year 1859, the total revenue of the US Treasury was $88,090,787. This was misleading, because $28,185,000 was ‘income’ from government borrowing. The actual total revenue from tariffs, and less the funds from the sale of public lands was $49,566,000. Tariff revenue contributed 92% of the total revenue of the country.
But the Congress spent $69,071,000, which was 29% more than it took in.
The value of total US exports for the year was $278,902,000. The value of the exports grown or produced in the South was 74% of the total. In order to understand the contribution of Southern agriculture to the trade, and thus tariff and taxation structure of the entire country, the following chart shows the percentage of the total value of exports contributed by the South for the year of 1859:
..................U. S. Department of Commerce
.................Agricultural Production of the South
........................Yearly Detail 1859
Value of : ......Cotton .........$161,434,000
.....................Tobacco ...........21,074,000
.....................Rice ....................2,207,000
.....................Naval stores........3,694,000
.....................Sugar.....................196,000
.....................Molasses.................75,699
......................Hemp.......................9,227
......................Other................8,108,000
__________________________
Total ...........................$196,797,926
Value of Southern manufactured
Cotton exports......................................... 4,989,000
Value of cotton component of Northern
Manufactured cotton exports (60%)..........3,669,000
_________________________
Total value of all Southern products.........................$205,455,926
Percentage of Southern Production to
the total US exports for 1859 of $278,392,000.
........................74%
Lets compare some of the numbers. These figures are from the 1860 census.
Capital Investment, North $850 million: South $95 million
Manufacturing Investment: North $892 million, South $95 million. Manufacturing operations: North 110,000, South, 18,000. Industrial workers: North 1.3 million, South 111,000. Value of textiles produced: North $181 million, South $10 million. Value of fire arms produced: North $2.3 million, South $73 thousand. Pig Iron produced: North 951,000 tons, South 37,000 tons. Coal produced: North 13.7 million tons, South 560,000 tons. Percentage of workforce engaged in agriculture: North 40%, South 84%. Corn & Wheat produced: North 698 million bushels, South 314 million bushels. Cotton produced: North 43,000 bails, South 5.3 million bales.
I assume the 110,000 engaged in manufacturing are free.
Many Southern manufacturing operations used slaves as a part of the workforce. Tredegar’s workforce, in Richmond, was over 40% slave labor.
After the City of New Orleans fell, the largest city in the Confederacy was wherever the Army of the Potomac was camped.
Do you think that unemployed machinists would have been content to sit on their hands in the North? And compete with the slave laborer for his wages. Don’t think so.
You don’t suppose that the Plantation owners wouldn’t have used some of the money to buy up the arable farm land from the small time planters and the free farmers. Land was needed for cotton and they could afford the land. They also controlled much of the governmental operations in the South, don’t suppose they would have also used that mechanism to expand their land holdings, do you.
“What would the Northern industrialists have done with the money? They would have built factories” Yes, in 1860 the capital investment in the North was $850 million. In the South it was $95 million.
It is good to see you back, and I hope you are well. I have always enjoyed your posts and I often learn from them.
Again, good to see you back.
Yes, I don't know why any reasonable person would object to having 250 occupation troops with munitions in a fortress overlooking the entrance to their city.
It's completely irrational to be bothered by this.
Specie has no bearing on data regarding the value and type of imports and exports. The US Custom houses supplied data on imports, exports, tariffs collected, and un- taxed goods. In all cases, specie is noted separately and is irrelevant to trade by region discussions
I agree. That's why it's always annoying when he brings it up.
There is no possibility that skilled machinists would have to compete with slave labor. And let us be clear here, in those days I believe they referred to the men who built factory machinery as "Mechanics" and "Machinists." Both terms mean something different in modern parlance.
It required quite an extensive knowledge set, and one which slaves would have had no access to learn.
You don’t suppose that the Plantation owners wouldn’t have used some of the money to buy up the arable farm land from the small time planters and the free farmers. Land was needed for cotton and they could afford the land. They also controlled much of the governmental operations in the South, don’t suppose they would have also used that mechanism to expand their land holdings, do you.
I have no doubt they would have engaged in the same sort of crony capitalist back door crap we have going on in Washington DC now. I think human nature is more or less universal, and that no one is inherently good or inherently immuned from seeking leverage through government.
But that's another issue. I think they would have taken any clear path to money which made itself apparent, including the building of factories.
But again, it's not what the Southern Aristocrats thought, it's what the Northern Industrialists who might see them as a threat, thought.
Did these Northern Industrialists see them as a grave threat? I think the evidence is pretty clear that they did. I've read articles from several Northern newspapers articulating this very concern. If the editors of papers could see it, do not doubt the powerful men who owned the factories could see it as well.
Here is a time line of actions by the seceding states. Note how many of these actions were taken BEFORE the state seceded. So even if you believe the state’s had a right to secede (and I don’t), these actions prior to that are treason.
State of Alabama: On 3 January 1861 Governor A. B. Moore directed the Alabama militia to seize the Mount Vernon Arsenal and Forts Morgan and Gaines, which controlled the entrance to Mobile Bay. The Arsenal was seized on the 4th, and the two forts a day later. Alabama didn’t succeed from the Union until 11 January.
State of Arkansas: On 8 February 1861 Arkansas militia volunteer companies seized the Little Rock Arsenal at the direction of the governor. On 6 May the Arkansas Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. The Convention elected not to submit the Ordnance to the people of Arkansas in a referendum for their approval.
State of Florida: On 6 January 1861 the Florida militia seized the U.S. arsenal at Apalachicola, the sole Federal arsenal in the state. On 7 January the Florida militia seized Fort Marion at St. Augustine. And, on 8 January Federal troops at Fort Barrancas, guarding the entrance to the harbor at Pensacola, fired on a party of Florida militia who had demanded the surrender of that fort. The next day, Lieutenant Adam J. Slemmer gathered the 50 men in his company from Forts Barrancas and McRee, dumped 20,000 pounds of gunpowder into the bay, and spiked his guns at those two forts. With the help of sailors from the Warrington Navy Yard, he moved all of his remaining supplies across the bay to Fort Pickens, which the Federal Army retained for the balance of the war. On 10 January the Florida Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. The Ordnance was not submitted to the people of Florida for their approval in a referendum.
State of Georgia: The Georgia Secession Convention passed its ordnance of secession on 19 January 1861 and the state withdrew from the Union. The Georgia militia seized the Augusta Arsenal on 24 January, and on the 27th Oglethorpe Barracks and Fort James Jackson at Savanah were also seized. In response to a demand from the state government for surrender of the Arsenal, Captain Arnold Elzey, the commander, had asked the War Department for instructions. Acting Secretary of War Holt had responded on 23 January that “The governor of Georgia has assumed against your post and the United States an attitude of war. His summons is harsh and preemptory. It is not expected that your defense shall be desperate. If forced to surrender by violence or starvation you will stipulate for honorable terms and a free passage by water with your company to New York.” In accordance with his instructions, Elzey made terms with Governor Brown, and his company was permitted to depart the arsenal with its arms and company property and to have unobstructed passage to New York.
State of Louisiana: The U.S. Arsenal at Baton Rouge, was seized by the Louisiana militia on 10 January 1861, as was the U.S. Army pentagon barracks at Baton Rouge. The New Orleans Barracks [Jackson Barracks] was seized on 11 January, as were Forts St. Philip and Jackson. Between them, these two forts controlled the Mississippi River approach to New Orleans. Fort Pike, which controlled the Rigolets Pass approach to Lake Pontchartrain was taken on 14 January. Fort Macomb, which controlled the Chef Menteur Pass approach to Lake Pontchartrain was seized on 28 January. On 31 January Revenue Captain James G. Breshwood surrendered the revenue cutter Robert McClelland to the State of Louisiana; which turned the cutter over to the Confederate States Navy which renamed her CSS Pickens. On 31 January the revenue cutter Washington was seized by Louisiana authorities in New Orleans. On 26 January the Louisiana Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. The Ordnance was not submitted in a referendum to the people of Louisiana for their approval.
State of Mississippi: On 9 January 1861 the Mississippi Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. The Ordnance was not submitted in a referendum to the people of Mississippi for their approval. On 21 January the Mississippi militia seized Fort Massachusetts, an unfinished brick fort on Ship Island on the Mississippi coast. The fort was abandoned by the end of January because Governor Pettus had no artillery to arm it.
State of North Carolina: On 23 April 1861 the North Carolina militia seized the Federal arsenal at Fayetteville, and the Federal garrison subsequently departed on 27 April. On 20 May the North Carolina Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. The Ordnance was not submitted to the people of North Carolina for their approval in a referendum.
State of South Carolina: On 20 December 1860 the South Carolina Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. The Ordnance was not submitted in a referendum to the people of South Carolina for their approval. On 27 December Captain Napoleon Coste turned the revenue cutter William Aiken over to South Carolina secessionists. On the same date, the South Carolina militia seized Castle Pickney, a small masonry fort in Charleston harbor. A Federal officer and a sergeant and his family were captured, provoking a discussion by the South Carolinians over whether to treat them as prisoners of war. The officer was allowed to go to Fort Sumter, while the sergeant was given a safe conduct and permitted to remain in his quarters at the fort. Also on the 27th the militia seized Fort Moultrie, another of the forts guarding Charleston harbor, which had been evacuated by its commander, Major Robert Anderson, on the 26th. On 28 December the South Carolina militia occupied the site of Fort Johnson on Windmill Point on James Island. Although long unoccupied by the U.S. Army, it had been one of the four forts controlling Charleston harbor. On 30 December the Charleston Arsenal was seized.
State of Tennessee: On 6 May 1861 the Tennessee Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. Although the state did not formally succeed from the Union until a “declaration of independence” referendum on 8 June, Governor Isham G. Harris persuaded the legislature to create the Provisional Army of Tennessee on 6 May. The enabling legislation authorized an army of 55,000 volunteers and authorized the governor to issue $5 million in state bonds for defense and military supplies. By the end of May convicts at the state penitentiary in Nashville were manufacturing small arms cartridges and other military supplies. The 8 June referendum affirmed the Ordnance of Secession 104, 913 to 47,238. East Tennessee voted solidly Unionist, and there were reports of interference with the vote in middle and western Tennessee, however.
State of Texas: On 1 February 1861 the Texas Secession Convention passed the state’s Ordnance of Secession. The Ordnance was submitted to the people of Texas for their approval on 23 February, with the referendum passing 46,153 to 14,747. Although Texas had not yet seceded, Major General Twiggs surrendered his forces and facilities, including the San Antonio Arsenal, at the demand of Texas authorities on 16 February. His officers and enlisted personnel were permitted to depart the state with their small arms, and the two artillery batteries under his command with four guns each.
Commonwealth of Virginia: On 17 April 1861 the Virginia Secession Convention passed the Commonwealth’s Ordnance of Secession, but there was an effort to initially suppress the announcement that the Ordnance had passed. While the Convention was meeting in secret session on the 17th, William C. Scott, the delegate from Powhatan County, said “I was told by the Adjutant General this morning that if we passed an ordinance of secession, we ought not to let it be known for a few days, because he sent for arms to the North, and he is apprehensive that they may be intercepted if it was known that the ordinance passed. Would it not be well, if we are determined to secede, to wait a little while in order that we may receive those arms from the North? We could then secede, and we would be in a much better condition to meet the enemy than we are now. This seems to be the proper course, and I trust the Convention will pursue it.” Later in the debates that day, Scott again mentioned his conversation with the Adjutant General and said “The Governor tells us this morning that if the action of this Convention is permitted to be known outside of this body, these arms will not be allowed to come here. If you send a communication of this sort to the President of the Confederate States, there will be great danger that the whole secret will leak out.” On 30 April the Convention authorized the Governor to issue $2,000,000 in treasury notes for the defense of the Commonwealth. The Ordnance of Succession was not ratified by the people of Virginia until a referendum on 23 May, wherein it passed 132,201 to 37,451. Although secession had not yet been approved by the people, the Commonwealth militia prepared to seize the Harper’s Ferry Armory. First Lieutenant Roger Jones, USA, had been ordered to Harper’s Ferry on 3 January with a company of eight non-commissioned officers and 60 enlisted men. By 18 April Rogers was in command of the post. Recognizing his utter inability to defend the armory, Jones set fire to the buildings and retreated with his troops across the Potomac River.
The above is probably incomplete; does not included the seizure of non-military facilities such as those of the Treasury Department, Post Office, etc.; and ends with the firing on Fort Sumter.
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