Posted on 12/05/2018 2:25:23 PM PST by ScottfromNJ
Split 3rd Circuit Upholds NJ's Ban on Large-Capacity Gun Magazines
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit has rejected a challenge to New Jersey’s ban on firearm magazines holding more than 10 rounds.
The appeals court, by a 2-1 margin, said the law limiting high-capacity magazines does not violate the Second Amendment, the Fifth Amendment’s Takings Clause or the Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause. The court affirmed an order from the U.S. District Court that denied challengers’ motion to preliminarily enjoin enforcement of the law.
Judges Joseph Greenaway Jr. and Patty Shwartz ruled to affirm the lower court. Judge Stephanos Bibas, in a 19-page dissenting opinion, called for the granting an injunction against enforcement while the state makes its argument that its ban can prevent harm from mass shootings.
Bibas said the majority erred because laws that impair self-defense in the home warrant strict scrutiny, not intermediate scrutiny as the other judges selected. And the law fails the strict scrutiny test, Bibas said.
Bibas also said that even under intermediate scrutiny, the law fails under the record of the case. Intermediate scrutiny “requires more concrete and specific proof before the government may restrict any constitutional right, period,” Bibas said.
NJ, Ny and CT....have similar restrictions. In New York you can buy and legally posses a 10 round magazine BUT it’s illegal to load that magazine with more than 7 rounds -ridiculous!
“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” -Ayn Rand
I guess all this screaming and yelling has to do with letting the shooter have ‘unlimited’ access to cartridges.
Here’s a video about mag changes. I sure mags could be limited to just 10 rounds and the shooter could shoot for a long time with just a fews mags.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=changing+mags+video&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=O0idQtEss0U
I have seen a video, can’t find it now, where a shooter changes semi-auto pistol mags in less than 2 seconds.
I’m not saying I’m for limiting mag rounds. I’m saying, with some mag changing practice it doesn’t matter.
Does not limit the 2nd amendment. Interesting.
Because the 2nd Amendment says that the Congress has to GIVE us guns, equipment and training in order for us to be the militia that it can call up to fight.
One question for the lawmakers who support magazine limits. Do these limits apply to all law enforcement agencies operating in the state, and the security forces protecting you and yours? Because if law enforcement needs more, and or your guards need more, well... Anyway, around here I can buy standard 30 round magazines for my AR, pinned down to our current ridiculous 15 round limit. Now, the pin is one aluminum pop rivet, easily drilled out...
We gun nuts are a noisy bunch.
You really do need to buy an M1 - it’s classic.
Simple not the case. Pistol rounds essentially only make a permanent wound channel. A .45 has is .096 inches larger. Barely a tenth of an inch.
Shot placement means everything. Even a heart shot from a .45 gives a determined attacker 5-10 seconds to shoot, stab or beat you.
Having more rounds in the mag gives you a better chance of hitting the noggin or CNS. This is why the FBI went back to 9mm.
How’s your one handed reloads with 10 round magazines loaded to seven to be legal?
Law enforcement misses as much as 70-80%...you just got 1.4 hits (being generous) but lost use of one arm.
Good luck with that!
No discussion on the potential need for self defense against multiple assailants? Mass shootings is only one side of the coin. What if you are being attacked by 3 armed men? Assuming of course they obey all other gun laws, they would have up to 33 bullets to your max of 11 (assuming that everyone keeps one round in the chamber plus 10 in the magazine.) You are out numbered, out gunned, and out ammo’d. Not to mention, some people have trouble getting the 9th and 10th round into the magazines.
Strict scrutiny must apply to all civil rights. The dissenting judge is correct. And even under intermediate scrutiny, the need for self defense against multiple assailants counter-balances the state’s need to prevent mass murders.
Of course, LEO are exempt from these laws. Another case of one law for the people, a different law for “them”.
M1 carbine has variable size magazines. The "hold open" on empty relies on the follower in the magazine. My rifle had no mags at purchase. Hunting around town, I found 5 rd and 10 rd mags. One with the "hold open" follower. If the bolt face has a fitment for a stripper clip, you can push them in from the top. My SKS has a bolt like that. The magazine is fixed. Most of the laws are written around the capacity of removable magazines that can be quickly exchanged.
It seems to me that one hit from a 45ACP slug is about 3 times more damaging than a 9mm and maybe twice as damaging than a 40 S&W.
Simple not the case. Pistol rounds essentially only make a permanent wound channel. A .45 has is .096 inches larger. Barely a tenth of an inch.
Shot placement means everything. Even a heart shot from a .45 gives a determined attacker 5-10 seconds to shoot, stab or beat you.
Having more rounds in the mag gives you a better chance of hitting the noggin or CNS. This is why the FBI went back to 9mm.
Agree having more available rounds is always best. I guess you are speaking diameter size as the difference between the two, what is the overall difference in circumference between the two for comparison? Barely a 1/10” difference (diameter) isn’t much I agree, but a bigger hole is a bigger hole, just curious how much
[NJ, Ny and CT....have similar restrictions. In New York you can buy and legally posses a 10 round magazine BUT it’s illegal to load that magazine with more than 7 rounds -ridiculous!]
To increase the idiocy, only at an ‘approved” range can you load ten rounds in that magazine. All others, only 7.
Wait until the total Rat legislature gets rolling this coming term.
OK, you guys - yes, they do make stripper clips and magazine adapters for M1 Carbine magazines. They are really magazine fillers and they make the same thing for M-16s.
But they can’t be used in the weapon directly like the Springfield ‘03, or the 1917 Enfield, or the M1941 Johnson or the SKS. All those weapons and the Mausers that feature came from, have a machined slot at the top of the receiver to enter and hold the stripper clip so the new ammunition can be directly added to the magazine in the weapon.
You guys are fudging the definition to win a debate...
That’s a good discussions to have as well.
The hit percentages in armed confrontations can often be very low. Under 20% is common for LEO involved shootings. That’s a good baseline to work from.
This means that, statistically, if you have a 10 round mag you’ll get two hits if you expand the entire mag in the course of a confrontation. Sometimes you’ll statistically get only one.
Often times it takes more than one hit to end a confrontation. 10 round mags are already an automatic failure in that respect. Statistically they don’t work very well if facing a single attacker.
If facing two, you’ve got real issues. I saw a YouTube video circulating a while back of a guy being accosted by 4 street criminals for wandering into their area by mistake. The confrontation didn’t go hot but if it had, that guy would’ve been been stone cold screwed if he’d had 10 rounders or a revolver even if his 4 attackers only had fists.
The truth is that the 15 to 20 round mags that handguns are designed to use are marginal, but they are as big as we can make them and still carry them easily. If you could figure out a way to carry an extended 30 rounder and keep that as a reload for your CCW, that’d actually be a good idea.
Let’s do an Einsteinian THOUGHT EXPERIMENT: Would a ban on BOOKS over 10 pages violate the First Amendment? What about a ban on speeches or TV programs over 10 minutes? Seems equivalent to me.
Bigger holes are bigger holes and yes, there is a better chance with a bigger hole to hit CNS. Once a hollow point expands, the difference between a .45 and a 9mm is notable, but relatively inconsequential. The difference between one .45 and two 9mm, or alternatively, 8 .45s and 17 9mm is significant in that you have roughly twice the opportunity to hit CNS.
Ammo choice is also huge. .45 Range ammo vs 9mm expanding hollow point is night and day.
King of it all will always be shot placement. If nothing else, practice stitching at the range. Start center mass, centerline and flow with muzzle rise. Sternum to forehead, hope you get a CNS or brain shot.
People like you who willingly go along with bans are the problem. We in the Free States will not comply with your gun accessory and gun bans.
Where did I say that I was going along with the ban? My point was that regardless of magazine size a person can cause massive amounts of carnage provided he chooses a location where people will be unarmed.
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