Posted on 01/18/2019 1:16:32 PM PST by LouieFisk
High school sports should be devoid of politics. Save it for debate clubs. Maybe debate clubs should change to debate teams, andthe should debate other schools. Each school should have two groups pro and con. The debates should be timed and the groups should debate opposite group from other school. I can think of many needed rules but thisis is just a beginning.
” You don’t have free speech rights at a public school, or at your neighbor’s house, or at work, etc.”
You might want to review “Tinker Vs. Des Moines”
You have free speech rights everywhere. But, it does not protect you from the consequences. Go tell your boss off right now, you have that right, he also has the right to fire you.
In school, these students were not being disruptive with that flag, in fact they were extremely peaceful and calm with it. They have every right, by the constitution to have that flag, they even pass the ‘Tinker test’. They cause no disruption, they did not block exits with it, they did not shout, stand, light anything on fire. If the school superintendent told them to put in away or gave them suspensions for it, the school superintendent would be in violation of their 1st amendment rights. They could sue and win big settlements.
“why young fans at his team’s road game in Jordan prominently displayed a flag promoting the re-election of President Donald Trump during Tuesday night’s contest”
Maybe they like President Trump? All of my Grandkid’s high school friends love Trump. I wonder how wide spread that is?
there fixed it
No right - such as free speech - is absolute. You’re rights are greatest when you are on your own property. Your rights are minimized when you are on someone else’s property.
Consider a person who is, say, a Muslim. Does he have the free speech right to say to a colleague - at work - that Islam is superior to Christianity? I think he does. He should not be punished for that.
But does he also have the free speech right to put up a sign at his desk: “Islam is superior to Christianity”? No! His free speech rights do not extend that far. He has no “right” to keep that sign up.
If he likes that sign so much, he should put it up in his own house.
We are talking two different things here
First the flag is not being held by the wall or a desk, the student have in their lap
Second, you really need to read Tinker vs. Des Moines here to understand what is going on. This is a Tinker moment.
The desk in the office is owned by the company, the space is owned by the company and the employee’s time is company time. If the company does not want that sign, that employee can take it down or if refuses, get fired.
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
It happened in Minnesota? I’m amazed ..(not really, teens are not as liberal as the media wants people to believe. We do have a libertarian streak in us when it comes to gay rights.
We have an Obama Elementary school.
The faux outrage is strong with this one.
Nope. There are Americans or racist haters like anyone the hyphenates.
“Agreed. Washburn and Edison were good at one time too. About the only Minneapolis HS worth anything these days is Southwest.”
—
South was good back in the day. And, of course, the long defunct Vocational. Most of the schools weren’t bad back then.
I guess I am having trouble understanding what you are saying.
By “flag” I assume you mean the “Trump 2020” banner.
Then you say, “If the company does not want that sign, that employee can take it down or if refuses, get fired.”
Well, yes. Of course. But that does NOT mean that the employee had the right to post that sign in the first place.
Because a “right” means that you can do something without fear of reprisal. A “right” means that you can do something, period. It does not mean that you can do something until someone tells you to stop.
” But does he also have the free speech right to put up a sign at his desk: “Islam is superior to Christianity”? “
If he has the right to say it he has the right to display it and must also accept the consequences.
Queers already have the same rights as any normal person... but now they are getting more protections.
It was a Trump 2020 Flag
You are talking two different scenarios. If an employee puts a banner or flag on his/her desk, the employer can request the employee to remove, the employer can remove it themselves or even fire the employee. Like I said free speech does not mean freedom from repercussion if any.
However, what the students did was protected, did you even read Tinker vs. Des Moines, it applies here, and is case law for what these students did. It is a different scenario. You are talking private business, but the students are NOT employees of the school district, they are students. A different legal standard here. If the superintendent even questions the students, he is in violation of their rights to free speech under 1st A and Tinker. Read Tinker, even the wikipedia version of it if you don’t want to read pages of legal mumble jumble. You will get a better understanding of what is going on and why my assessment is the correct one.
Government can not prohibit your speech, public schools are government schools, they can not prohibit their free speech. This applies to leftist speech and even conservative, even if these students like Trump they can not be told to put that flag away by any government employee. The students are not government employees by any standards. It does not matter what is on the flag, they could have Trump 2020 on it, Go bobcats or whatever their school mascot/team is, or I love Cheese, it doesn’t matter, it is all protected. However they can not disrupt. If they were to block the exit with their flag, hold it up in the air to block the view from people behind or nail it to the wall, they do not have the right to do any of that. These students did this the right way, and honestly to the book and definition of the Tinker Test.
“Because a “right” means that you can do something without fear of reprisal. A “right” means that you can do something, period. It does not mean that you can do something until someone tells you to stop.”
A right means the government can not stop you. A private business is NOT the government. A business can have a sign that says “no guns allowed on premises” that is their right, you also have the right to not patronage that business.
See how it works?
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