As I understand it, a “red flag” law would be designed to prohibit a-holes like this from buying guns
I’m not clear why that’s a bad idea. Convince me
For extreme cases like this, he should have been flagged. New laws might help but are there existing laws that might have been applied. First, making threats, conspiring, etc.
Would you want that list controlled by the Obama administration? JB Pritzker? Bill deBlasio?
Your understanding is inaccurate.
Red flag laws mean anyone can contact the police with “concerns” about the stability of a gun owner. The police then come and take that person’s weapons and issue him a show cause order to appear in court and explain why the confiscation should not be permanent and ascertain whether or not he should be subject to mental health evaluation.
!. No due process. All proposals allow any LEO or health professional to add a person’s name to the list on the word of an angry ex-partner or liberal neignbor.
2. The list is secret. The only way you’ll find out if you are on the list is to be denied while you are at the store.
3. There is no process to get your name removed from the list once it is on.
4. There is no due process to protect the rights of the accused. Guns can be removed from your possession without you ever being allowed to state your case before a judge.
5. There is no penalty for for falsely reporting that you are “a danger”.
6. Your firearms can be held indefinitely while you try to prove your innocence, which could cost you thousands.
7. If you are deranged enough to be denied the right to purchase a firearm, you probably should be locked up.
Convince me
Why should I? You post on FR, which means you're mentally ill.
I'm sure I can get a teacher and a social worker to agree with me...then have yo put away.
See how this works?
The problem is with who gets to decide what is a red flag.
I am of the opinion that taking away the rights of citizens should ONLY happen AFTER that person has been given the chance in a court of law to refute any allegations of mental incompetence.
So called “Red Flag” laws reverse that model by first taking away guns and then requiring the citizen to fight and carry the cost of proving that they are sane and responsible.
So imagine Antifa wanting to have a nice little riot downtown. Set up a bunch of fake red flag calls and get private citizens guns taken away. Then go have a riot at their house. Citizens are now unable to defend themselves. That scenario alone should convince you.
This is soviet in the extreme. Do you own a gun? Having any crazy leftist relatives or neighbors you have argued with? Guess what - they can report you, and basis this law, cops can investigate you or potentially deprive you of several of your basic rights - with no crime having been committed whatsoever.
Do a little research on Stasi.
How would red flag laws have prevented this shooting? I am not knowledgeable about them. Do they flag every person threatening to commit suicide? Do they flag every person who makes a threat - sincere or idle? Do they flag every person who is notified about formally or informally, or just flag the people who a Doctor, judge, or police officer deems to be a danger to themselves and others?
I don’t understand how they identify the people who are a genuine danger to themselves or others, and all the crackpots just mouthing off. This sounds like it is ripe for abuse. Every wife can call the local PD and say her husband/son is a danger to himself, and POOF their guns are gone.
All it takes is thinking the wrong thoughts... which is defined by the ‘elites’ in charge. Totalitarians love thought crimes.
I heard a liberal on MSNBC a month back making the case that ‘thinking about robbing a bank was the same as robbing a bank’... It's not.
Our culture's falling apart - there's been a spiritual flood - culture sign posts have been washed away. I feel it's been intentional - the disaster manipulated by liberal elites...and that the situation won't get better by government thugs applying more and more force. Yes, if there's proof a person's going off the rails, families, classmates etc should have a place to seek help. But if this killing spree stuff keeps happening - and it will - then we've got to go deeper, find the toxic incentives and pull them out.
The idea is not bad, keeping weapons away from crazy people... but the execution is dangerous, as eventually one side will be tempted to use the idea as a political weapon ... casting their enemies as “crazy” and having their weapons removed by force. You’re infinitely better off monitoring the crazy people.