Posted on 10/10/2019 5:58:37 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
Thank you for the rational and cogent argument.
To me one big con is that the Middle East, with its long and troubled history and its divisive tribalism, seems to defy peaceful solutions or attempts at stability. Plus having a sizeable contingent of U.S. forces there could actually increase the possibility of war. All it takes is one mistake.
I understand that peace has a price but I’m not sure its attainable in the ME. It appears that congress feels the same way as they refuse to formally commit to supporting our involvement there.
That said, I could agree that a residual force may be justifiable. But even if Trump pulls out its likely that some of our special forces will quietly remain there in any case.
The kurds, who were under an umbrella of US protection, are now fighting the Turks to stay alive. That is not extortion. That is just basic survival instinct.
As POTUS repeatedly has stated: other countries have a stake in this. Where are they? AWOL. If anybody is being extorted here it is POTUS. Kurds. Support us or we release terrorists. EU. AWOL. US Military. Insubordinate. Etc., etc.
Well, to also be honest, you don’t send anyone. Our soldiers are volunteers.
Taxpayers who are financing this adventure are certainly not volunteering their money to pay for it.
Well, so going forward, any soldier that doesn’t agree with the CIC can simply go to the media and get front page coverage stating their opinion?
Yeah, I don’t think so..l.only if the CIC is Trump or some other conservative.
When it’s Obama or the like not so much...
Yeah, its been 18 years already.
If we left spawning grounds for anything but fish, we did not use our might or do our job.
And of course they are volunteers. I have college classmates Desert Storm, Panama, Beirut, Iran II, The surge, Afghanistan, and family in Afghanistan, Iraq (twice) and Africa.
Since I graduated in ‘82, this means we are nearly 40 years into this bullshit and you are still spouting the same crap.
These men an women have spent more time in combat than their fathers and grandfathers in WWII.
And you spout the same crap.
End it. Let someone else deal with it. We have a strong air force, with big bombs. If they attack our families and homes...then they forfeit theirs.
“They” are not attacking us in any significant way—here or where our interests are.
We are in Central Asia for rare earth minerals. We are in Africa for oil and REMs. We went to Iraq to box in Iran and Russia.
You are falling for the MIC crap. You need to expand your critical thinking and ask who benefits from our being in that part of the world? Saudi Arabia and Israel. If we do not care about those places, we do not need them as allies. And since we have our own oil, and we can ship to China and Japan from our West Coast, there is no reasonable reason to stay there.
Tell me a good, solid, financially sound reason we need to be in any of those shitholes...and I will be all for it.
Six months after my Son In Law gets home, he gets notice that he is on the deployment list eight months later. It was “guaranteed” to him that it was going to be three years. Guess which Army is losing a combat vet with a needed specialty.
Its all bullshit. I don’t care about the people over there. Let them kill each other. When they attack us again, level their world. And carry through with it.
I appreciate very much that Trump has changed the dynamics of politics that we have followed for the last half century. Many old strategies were bogged down or not working (NK i.e.). But I also respect the opinions of the warriors who have been there or are leading the troops. MANY now have advised the president against this particular course of action, some have even resigned over it. While some are politically motivated, I wince at the calls here on a conservative forum that anyone who warns of the downside of withdrawal is a "Globalist" or "Neocon" or part of the "Military Industrial Complex". Screaming at good people who dedicated their lives to their chosen profession as warriors like they are part of a conspiracy is not helpful or civil. Healthy debate with reasoned argument is fine, though.
Oh, and before I forget, yes, Congress is supposed to be able to declare war....but Congress has shown itself over the last 40 years now to be a feckless, self serving group that wants to take positions of no responsibility, abrogating its duties to the executive when there is risk of any downside, and then the first to scream, yell, and point fingers when things go bad (or even if they don't in many cases). So yeah, technically, constitutionally, Congress should be the ones to legally declare military action, but they don't in practice and haven't for decades.
Wow, I am talking about soldiers lives and your first thought is your pocket book. Lame.
You should hear yourself.
I wont argue with you as your argument is personal apparently. I will say I spent a hell of a lot more time overseas in my active duty days than I would have preferred, but it came with the job. I didn't whine about it, and I hope your son handled it like a man better than you did. If he chose to get out I have no problem with that. My respects to him for his service.
You mischaracterize the Kurd position with your statement
As to other western nations, I echo your question. Where are they? We will all feel the impact of a middle east in flames, but Europe certainly has more to lose and more immediately than us. So if they are not there, they are negligent.
You must be a college professor...
Turkey wanted a so-called buffer zone all along the border. We agreed to it months ago. This is an area that the Kurds had only occupied about 3 years ago, chasing down ISIS.
Previously the area was occupied by Assad’s troops.
Most of this buffer zone is majority Turkomen and Arab, not Kurds.
We don’t do what Erdogan says, just because he wants it, ever.
We didn’t run, we simply moved about 100 troops about 40 kilometers from their obsertvation posts.
We have 19 bases in the former Syria, now Rojava.
We are pouring concrete and requisitioning fuel, hardly tucking tails.....
We are building a new base right across the border in Jordan that is so big and permanent that we are hiring a community planner for the American personnel and their families to live in.
The Rojava Kurds aren’t aligned politically with the Iraqi Kurds that most people thing of.
A very wise policy.
The hardened service member is among the 1,000 or so U.S. troops who remain in Syria....I thought it was 50?
Please help me sort this out in my mind. Without any legal basis, we have deployed troops to a sovereign nation, Syria, to assist a non state group fight another non state group supported by some other sovereign nation who may be our ally or possibly our enemy who buy arms from someone else who we once assisted fight someone else in the same region and we depend on someone else to provide logistics for our troops who are making sure someone else is guarding prisoners who someone else captured fighting someone’s enemy. Meanwhile Bashar Assad is sitting in Damascus laughing his ass off while arms dealers all over the world are concerned that they might have to find new customers among the politicians in multiple countries who collectively have their fingers in the air trying to determine which way the wind is blowing.
Me, I’m going fishing while someone crazier than me sorts out this cluster ****.
Good post and thanks for bringing to others attention the “world police” thing has been going on 4 decades now. Where is the end?
No my argument is based on nearly 40 years of not solving the problem.
Your answer is another 40 years of impotent waste.
It it worth spending trillions to defend against a potential of millions in “damage?” Try using that argument anywhere else. Much of my background is in Risk mitigation and Emergency “response” ( not first responder, but rather corporate response to emergencies.). You plan would be laughed out of every boardroom I’ve ever set foot in. It is not feasible, relevant, or cost effective.
Yeah, I have seen up close and personal what the loss of limb, life, and livelihood due to 40 years of this crap. I recognize that. Do you recognize the lack of logic and steadfast groupthink that your answer represents.
Well, you got that right. You didn't solve the problem.
911 came from ignoring the problem. You think that cost was only millions? You already gave away your reasons for being angry. No point in arguing. Its personal to you.
Fake news.
Either the authors, Jennifer Griffin and Melissa Leon are in Syria, embedded with SOCOM or the unnamed solder called them to tell them this.
They also don’t opine on policy to the press. Fake news.
“I will never send our finest into battle unless necessary, and I mean absolutely necessary, and will only do so if we have a plan for victory with a capital V”.)”
1. We had already put “our finest” into battle in Syria, before Trump was elected. Our special forces were already there.
2. The he added more to our special forces helping the Kurds against ISIS and securing control of some of their own lands in Syria.
3. ISIS is not defeated in Syria. It is depleted greatly but it lives on. One of the areas where it lives in is in the remnants that became “refugees” in the Afrin area of north western Syria that Erdogan took over. Erdogan then used those ISIS remnants, formed in gangs, to purge Kurds from and around Afrin. Declaring victory is not the same as achieving it.
4. Obama did less of sending U.S. troops into the fight in Syria than Trump has. So much for promises.
5. Trump’s policy change is not one of not getting us into a fight. Trump’s policy is one of ignoring the fight we are already in, trying to suggest that fight is over just because we leave.
6. We do not have “victory with a capital V”. We are leaving an ally just as the shared victory we have with them is about to be snatched from them.
I have said more than once, I cannot see how I will vote for anyone but Trump in 2020. But this policy change will not be one of the reasons I do vote for him.
I think time will prove me right and Trump will live to regret. I did vote for Trump. I do not think he is G-d.
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