United Methodism Moves toward Separation (Denominational Split becomes more certain)

Institute of Religion and Democracy ^ | 3 Jan 2020 | Mark Tooley

[BillyBoy]

>> Free Will
Holiness
Universal Atonement <<

>> As a Catholic, I have no problem with them. <<

>> All three of those are heresies. <<

I would assume this is how they define each of those doctrines:

Free Will - God gives humanity the freedom to decide their own destiny. A person is free not only to reject salvation, but also to accept it by an act of free will.

Holiness - The ultimate goal of a Christian is the process of union with God, characterized by pure love of God and other people, as well as a personal holiness or sanctification.

Universal Atonement - Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, and did so for the benefit of all mankind without exception.

If those are the definitions they are going by, I would venture to say the vast majority of Christians agree with those three points of theology. You can reject any or all of them, but your viewpoint is likely in the extreme minority.

If those three points were John Weasley's main reasons for starting his own church or movement or whatever, I would say it was a waste of time. Plenty of existing Christian churches at the time embraced his theological beliefs.

[Eleutheria5]

So long as the Spirit moves them.

[Gamecock]

Wheat from the tares.

[xzins]

Here’s hoping

We’ve got a lot complaining we should get more out of the deal. I don’t care. I just want separation from the lgbtq jezebel church of thyatira

[Vigilanteman]

I never thought it would be big enough to destroy a once proud organization like the Boy Scouts of America either.

[ecomcon]

Free Will = Arminianism
Holiness = Wesleyans believe one can attain sinless perfection
Universal or Unlimited Atonement = By-product of Free Will

[Cronos]

possible.

I just don’t know enough to comment

[txrefugee]

It’s not about homosexuality as one issue. It’s about following God’s Word as the standard for the church. The Bible is not ambivalent about homosexuality, calling it an “abomination” to God.
Why would any so-called Christian church want to accept ministers who are abominations to God?
Before Jesus ascended to heaven, He instructed His disciples to “go and teach all nations,...teaching them all things I have commanded you.” We are not free to change or omit the parts of the Bible that we do not like.

[xzins]

There is some truth in the thought that men don’t value co-ed roles as much as male only roles. The Catholics do well with a male only priesthood, and most baptists are male only. I believe orthodox and Missouri synod lutherans are male only. Paul indicates that men are less likely to be deceived than women, but just fine with outright disobeying God to please women.

My memory says Wesley employed women from the outset, but that it was rare. The American frontier was hardlu safe for a traveling female alone and on horseback.

In any case, the denominations birthed from methodism can be more willing to use women...assembly of God, Church of God, etc.

In general, my observation is that it tends over time to decrease male participation.

[lightman]

I believe orthodox and Missouri synod lutherans [LCMS] are male only.

Correct: The Orthodox (all jurisdictions), LCMS, and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod are male-only. So are some geographic and some affinity Dioceses of the Anglican Church of North America.

In any case, the denominations birthed from methodism can be more willing to use women...assembly of God, Church of God, etc.

The Salvation Army (a descendant of Methodism) had female Officers (clergy) from the very beginning. Evangeline Booth (William Booth's wife) is held in high esteem as a role model.

[lightman]

Good tips.

The genius of Anglican publishing is that since musical tastes change frequently, certainly at least generationally hymnals can be changed without risking tinkering with the liturgy.

TEC went over half a century (128 to 1979) without changing Prayer Books. How many hymnals during that time?

The downside is needing to use two books.

[Cronos]

well orthodoxy in general doesn’t have priestesses or pastoresses, though deaconnesses are not unusual in time or geography.

Female church leaders affecting male participation is one thing - which I didn’t think of.

But my question was more pertinent to the spread of LGBTQABCDE and whether this is related to female priestesses/pastoresses

[xzins]

We would have to look at revelation about females, knowledge about females, and ask whether their presence in pulpits contributed to the inclusion of those who in the past were universally considered biblically unqualified, I only have personal opinions.

I place the blame more on the liberal indoctrination of the mainlines starting in the early 1900s. Our worst bishops leading us down this path decades ago were male.

[lightman]

But my question was more pertinent to the spread of LGBTQABCDE and whether this is related to female priestesses/pastoresses

All part of this slippery slope:

1) Acceptance of artificial birth control, first for laity then for clergy;
2) Acceptance of no fault divorce, first for laity then for clergy;
3) Acceptance of second marriage after divorce, first for laity then for clergy*;
4) Acceptance of female clary: 5) Acceptance of abortion virtually on demand; 6) Acceptance, celebrating, and mandating the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ agenda.

*In some Protty circles divorce among clergy is viewed as a badge of honor and "still being on the first marriage" is denigrated as a sign of immaturity.

[Cronos]

I know the slippery slope statement and I’ve used it myself.

but now I’m wondering how true it is (empirically speaking) as opposed to me just saying it because it sounds true to me.

If methodists have had pastoresses from the beginning and only now, 100+ years later have the Lg... problem - is it just the priestesses that caused it? Or was it a coincidence?