United Methodism Moves toward Separation (Denominational Split becomes more certain)

Institute of Religion and Democracy ^ | 3 Jan 2020 | Mark Tooley

[yldstrk]

I am probably trying a synagogue next.

[Jane Long]

It would seem that the conservative leadership could bring up (and insist on) the great point/s you made.

[MeganC]

The Divided Methodist Church.

[jagusafr]

A large part of me says, “Pardon me - who says WE scriptural, orthodox Methodists are leaving?”

[ducttape45]

Kind of makes you wonder what the liberal and conservative factions will call themselves?

[Destroyer Sailor]

I agree, I could see slavery in the 1840’s being reason for a split. It is an example how unfocused we have become. Sexuality is an important part of being human but in the last 60 years it has become a sick obsession. It makes me wonder if all of this is more than a question on religion and is just a question of the subversion of our morals and society. I am against this and would welcome a hard breakup of the UMC. A stand must be taken for what is right .

[lightman]

Ping.

You may say, “we told you so”!

[lightman]

I agree, I could see slavery in the 1840’s being reason for a split. It is an example how unfocused we have become. Sexuality is an important part of being human but in the last 60 years it has become a sick obsession. It makes me wonder if all of this is more than a question on religion and is just a question of the subversion of our morals and society. I am against this and would welcome a hard breakup of the UMC. A stand must be taken for what is right .

Much of Christendom's establishment has become voluntarily enslaved to sexual passions.

[Albion Wilde]

May I invite you to visit the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod (LCMS), the orthodox, Bible-believing church founded on the teachings and catechism of Martin Luther. Scripture is the only source of doctrinal authority in the LCMS. There are no women pastors. It's great to see many men and multi-generational families participating in the services and missions of the LCMS.

LCMS web site

LCMS congregations and schools locations

[BipolarBob]

Straight Methodist Church vs. Rainbow Pride Methodist Church I suppose.

[Albion Wilde]

A large part of me says, “Pardon me - who says WE scriptural, orthodox Methodists are leaving?”

Time to fight. Traditionals are in the minority in the US, but are bolstered every four years at the General Conference by the Africans. But they go home again, and the national organization is equivalent to the Deep State -- full of radical leftists. Try to exercise the rule of law and fair play and see what happens from the entrenched hippie/prog/commies. But it may be a fight worth having. Certainly it will make people question, pray, articulate and define their faith, and investigate what Wesley, and more importantly, what Jesus Christ, intends for his church.

I left some years ago when my kid was an adolescent, after several highly inappropriate gay-favoring incidents from a succession of pastors. I couldn't have that exposure during the teenage years. After being in a family of five generations of Methodists, it was like a divorce for me, but now we are both so much better off in a clearly Bible-affirming, apostolic church.

[xzins]

Because it was being obstructed

[xzins]

I believe getting separated is more important than dollars

[xzins]

See #73

[Wallace T.]

In Presbyterian circles, the conservative PCA, originally a group of mostly Southern congregations, left the liberal PCUSA 47 years ago. it started out with 41,000 members and 260 congregations. As of 2018, the PCA has over 1,900 congregations and 395,000 members. Counting in other, smaller conservative Presbyterian denominations, there are probably close to a half million members, numbers that begin to approach those of the shrinking PCUSA. I would imagine a conservative Methodist body would have similar outcomes.

[Wuli]

“I believe getting separated is more important than dollars.”

To Conservatives no doubt, but to the Liberals they have so much VESTED political interest in the Liberal programs administered through the predominately Liberal UMC HQ agencies, which use funds from all the UMC conferences. Proportionately dividing up THOSE funds by the global UMC general conference proportions WILL cut into those Liberal programs, and the Liberal UMC HQ agencies budgets.

[WashingtonSource]

I just looked up some data on the split in the Episcopal Church USA.

The Anglican Church in North America, the traditionalists and conservatives, set up their own denomination in 2009.

Just looking at data from 2013 and 2018, this is what has happened.

Average Sunday attendance in the Episcopal Church has declined from 611,686 in 2013 to 531,958 in 2018. (I’m not counting membership as it is greatly inflated in the Episcopal Church. So Average Sunday attendance is a better measure.)

Average Sunday attendance in the Anglican Church of North America has increased from 65,885 to 88,048.

So, in 2013, ACNA Sunday attendance was about 11% of the attendance at the Episcopal Church.

But by 2018, only five years later, ACNA Sunday attendance had risen to close to 17%.

One can see on that trajectory over the course of a two decades, ACNA will surpass the Episcopal Church in size, although it will still be smaller than the Episcopal Church was in 2013.

Here are the details:

If ACNA grows 7% a year, it will have average Sunday attendance of 192,000 by 2028 and 403,000 in 2038.

Meanwhile the Episcopal Church would decline by 2.6% a year to 407,000 in 2028 and down to 309,000 in 2038.

In 30 years, ACNA would have 618,000 average Sunday attendance and be larger than the Episcopal Church was in 2013. The Episcopal Church would have 266,000 average Sunday attendance.

ACNA would be more that twice the size of The Episcopal Church, which would be less than half its size in 2013.

Of course no trend goes on forever at the same level so none of this is likely to work out this way. But it gives you some idea of where diverging growth rates can take things.

One more caveat: I’m sure my math is probably off a bit, so feel free to blast away at my calculations.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Time to separate the Sodomite Stalinist Satanists from the Christians.

[MacNaughton]

37 I am hoping for a better outcome for orthodoxy and orthopraxis from this national judicatory meeting in Minneapolis. The ELCA disaster of August 2009 happened in that city as a tornado touched down across the street from the venue.

On 8/19/2009, severe thunderstorms formed in Iowa and the Dakotas. The storms moved to the north and east during the day, spreading into Wisconsin and Minnesota. At 1:50 pm CDT, an EF0 tornado touched down in south Minneapolis, Minnesota, uprooting trees and causing minor structural damage to buildings, including Minneapolis' neo-Gothic-styled Central Lutheran Church. The tornado continued north-northwest for 4.5 miles (7 km) before dissipating near the Minneapolis Convention Center in downtown Minneapolis where the ELCA Churchwide Assembly was being held.[32]

The coincidence of this tornado with the day of the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly's vote on the Social Statement "Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust" sparked an increased interest in the Assembly across social media, local print and broadcast news, the religious blogosphere, and a few national-level media outlets including the magazine Christianity Today[33] and a blog by the religion editor of The Washington Times.[34] While this was the first significant tornado to strike the city of Minneapolis since June 14, 1981,[32] ten additional tornadoes also touched down that day in eastern Minnesota and western Wisconsin.

[xzins]

And it will delay getting free of the Lgbtq crowd for about a decade of legal fighting