Posted on 04/07/2020 11:33:16 AM PDT by COBOL2Java
Well i only moonlighted in ERs but I spent plenty of time “visiting” ERs over some 20 years and was the OIC of an Army ER. Patients who come in blue and gasping for breath do generally get intubated straight away. I’ve done it myself, many times. It’s called “Respiratory Failure”. Obviously, I’m not seeing these patients but it sounds like the are decompensating quickly. Ok’d have to be pretty damn confident you knew what you were doing not to.
Now we are hearing they are holding off. Why? Because 80 or 90% just die in hours and the vent doesn’t help anyway? I don’t know, but maybe it’s a possibility. Maybe the people actually doing it have decided to stop tubing these people because the outcome is so miserable.
MomMD is still working, she is seeing these patients. Depressing was the word I’m pretty sure she used. “Nothing seems to work.” But you gotta remember they aren’t fixing cars. You can’t just throw things at these patients hoping they will work. That’s Institutional level panic behavior. There is data that will answer the question and we ain’t getting it.
...and now you again. No I don’t know how to find the correct herbs in the Tennessee Mountains, either. We don’t need to know about zinc pores. We need to know what is happening to actual patients taking the actual drugs. The data is there.
also many atypical pneumonia’s are bilateral so he is wrong on that front as well. In addition. no one is using high pressure ventilation any longer. If the hypoxia were a defect in blood cells proning would not help nor would increasing O2 delivery but both help in this disease. I have not heard of any broncho alveolar pa age showing pulmonary hemosidrrosis which I would expect with a lot of free iron running around. It may be an Interesting theory and it may be a part of the puzzle but this is not the grand answer.
You bursting ego spittle aside, we ARE hearing from real physicians using HCQ and they are repotting amazing positives. Your strenuous effort to tremain ignorant is not out done by your spittling accusations at me. You are the problem, not any aid for a solution.
In software, my domain of expertise, there is a serious issue with the ability to determine what consequences come from a specific action/change. In this case, we are talking about a different mechanism for why the drug(s) might be effective against the disease agent - the virus.
In the end, the data shall set us free, but acknowledging interesting theories is not acquiescence. It is recognizing that the common understanding of a drug-pathogen interaction may not be properly understood by the medical community.
It is interesting material, but certainly not persuasive, given the lack of empirical evidence as to its correctness. Sometimes, those that “should speak up” are too busy to speak. Other times, they know that to speak up has one of two effects: (1) diminish their reputation (when they gainsay a factual position) or (2) diminish their reputation (when they support a hypothesis absent empirical data).
You are much more closely tied to this community than I am, but I have seen too many instances where expert communities were surprised by the intuition of non-expert commentators.
BTW, genius, I have NEVER written anything about the following which you in typical liars style tried to connect me to: You spittled, “No I don’t know how to find the correct herbs in the Tennessee Mountains, either.” Frankly, I doubt you can even find your ass after your ‘happy hour’ crutch is invoked. Is happy hour getting earlier and earlier for you? You ineptitude was exposed when you could not even understand the conclusion paragraph of a paper post for you to discuss.
While Malaria is from a parasite and Wuhan flu is not..parasitic drugs are working including invectermin in clinical studies.
Salon or slate had an article from a lung Dr who had the Wuhan and was cured from a drug..don’t remember which one.
His ferritin levels were off the charts.
still do not see people talking about those with red blood cell disorders that were thought to have evolved due to malaria...such as sickle cell anemia ..which occurs also in Iran.
I still have idiotic Doctors and nurse practioners that tell me I need to take iron after looking at my blood tests. When I say, no...I have thalessemia...it still doesn’t click.
Maybe one of these days a scientist will think about what happens to those with red blood cell disorders that already have an oxygen problem and how it dovetails with malaria, malaria drugs, and Wuhan
I’ve been asking for the data every day for a week. Every day goes by there is more data. Every day the answers are becoming clearer. There’s over 20,000 cases to look at. There has to be hundreds of patients in there. If they are still looking and can’t find anything that just tells me any signal that hard to see is because it ain’t there. So every day goes by my suspicions that it doesn’t work grow stronger.
Have not seen it either and I’ve been keeping a very close watch on the breaking page.
Hit it 8 or more times a day and scroll down until I get to the last post I saw.
Another article yesterday (somewhere) said instead of ventilators what is better for Covid-19 patients is a less expensive machine that is connected intravenously that collects, cleans and resupplies the blood with oxygen in the hemoglobin, pumping the restored blood back into circulation, lowering the missing oxygen damage of Covid-19, without further impairing the lungs.
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The author does state that malaria is "a little parasite". The reference to virus vs bacteria would apply to azythromycine which is an antibacterial drug. However in this case it is working to control fluid in the lungs. That has been pointed out in all of the studies that used the HDC and Azythromycine combo. In one study, Doxycycline was substituted for Azythromycine to avoid the lengthening of the Q wave in high risk patients. It was still noted that it was used for its anti-inflammatory action.
You may want to read this article more slowly, where it explains that malaria is caused by a parasite.
How does chloroquine work? Same way as it does for malaria. You see, malaria is this little parasite that enters the red blood cells and starts eating hemoglobin as its food source. The reason chloroquine works for malaria is the same reason it works for COVID-19 — while not fully understood, it is suspected to bind to DNA and interfere with the ability to work magic on hemoglobin. The same mechanism that stops malaria from getting its hands on hemoglobin and gobbling it up seems to do the same to COVID-19 (essentially little snippets of DNA in an envelope) from binding to it. On top of that, Hydroxychloroquine (an advanced descendant of regular old chloroquine) lowers the pH which can interfere with the replication of the virus. Again, while the full details are not known, the entire premise of this potentially ‘game changing’ treatment is to prevent hemoglobin from being interfered with, whether due to malaria or COVID-19.
That was sarcasm re what the media says.
Why do you expect me to guide you? Where are the editors of “The Journal of Infectious Disease”? Why are we out here flailing trying to make sense of this stuff? Where are they? What the hell wrong with them?
So far I haven’t seen a thing that indicates there is a reduction in serious illlness or mortality. There’s over 20,0000 cases now. There’s armies of professionals with access to the data and computers. Why are we still making decisions based on YouTube videos and emails? There’s real data. If the data shows it works, then it works. If it doesn’t it doesn’t.
Lot of stupid errors or reasoning by magic in the article.
Not saying it isn’t true - but the author, whoever he is, is not an expert (although still could be correct).
bkmk
“ First time I’ve seen it...”
Me too. Nice article.
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