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NYSE Signals It Will Exit New Jersey if State Taxes Stock Trades
The Wall Street Journal ^ | 11 Sept 2020 | Alexander Osipovich and Joseph De Avila

Posted on 09/11/2020 7:07:49 AM PDT by Theoria

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To: Theoria

High frequency trading is nothing more than wealthy stock trading firms printing money for themselves at the cost of the stability and appropriate valuation of the overall stock market. Should have been outlawed years ago but when you print your own money, you can use that money to buy politicians.


21 posted on 09/11/2020 7:23:33 AM PDT by jz638
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To: Theoria

Several years ago, the French government decided it wasn’t fair that collector’s were making millions of dollars from art bought a century ago for pocket change. They implemented a very small tax on all sales with the intention of benefitting the descendants of artists. Overnight, the entire auction business moved from France to England and the US.


22 posted on 09/11/2020 7:24:44 AM PDT by Gen.Blather (Wait! I said that out loud?)
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To: Theoria

OK, but Chicago?


23 posted on 09/11/2020 7:25:12 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: KarlInOhio

EXACTLY ... The threat of the move would obviously impact the ability to exact the tax, but the bigger impact is that moving the exchange would obviate the need for major financial institutions to have headquarters near the FORMER exchange. Milliseconds count, and so offices would be relocated to where the new exchange is, which would cost NJ and NY billions in Income Tax revenue, along with decreased property values as thousands of multimillion dollar houses hit the market at the same time.


24 posted on 09/11/2020 7:26:03 AM PDT by RainMan (CW2 ... time to kick the Democrats asses AGAIN.)
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To: eyeamok
They should just do it now simply for them bringing up the proposal to TAX Trades.

My thoughts exactly.

I ran the numbers on this when Murphy came out for the tax last week. It does not just affect institutional traders doing high frequency trading. So the populist idea of "big bank bad" and they should pay more taxes is a red herring. (By the way, big banks are bad, but taxes are bad too.) This tax would affect small trading companies, partnerships and some individual investors. It impacts ETFs that must come in line with the underlying securities by market session close (due to regulation.) It affects pension and retirement funds. Just from the basic principles of capitalism it is wrong. It creates a barrier to entry and exit in a market, however so slight. We should always try to steer our markets towards pure competition and taxes get in the way.

I suspect that Murphy was the director of diversity and social justice outreach at Goldman. He doesn't know a damn thing about trading or capitalism.

25 posted on 09/11/2020 7:26:48 AM PDT by ConservativeInPA ("War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." - George Orwell, 1984)
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To: DEPcom
My point is that the trading on Apple (or any other company) stock isn't about how much money Apple will make in the next ten years, but rather if I can get a hundredth of a cent more on a buy-sell sequence than the broker across the hall. That's no longer investing, it's gambling on trading computer reaction speed. It would make as much sense as having the floor traders bet on Rock-Paper-Scissors while spending millions on analyzing each others tells and muscle twitches to see if you can predict whether they are going for rock or paper. Very soon you forget that you were once trying to predict Apple's profitability.

And a lot of it is just to front-run the real investors, so if they find out I want to buy Apple they can buy it a fraction of a second before me and run up the price by a penny per share. Do that a million times a day and you're talking about real money.

26 posted on 09/11/2020 7:29:18 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (In 2016 Obama ended America's 220 year tradition of peaceful transfer of power after an election.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
My comment was based on 2020 realities and Kristi Noem being perhaps our last freedom-loving Governor.

Kemp in Georgia has been better than I expected. Noem is ideal, but she doesn't have to contend with an Atlanta. Pierre is not as much of a problem. I agree with you on the usury.
27 posted on 09/11/2020 7:29:41 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
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To: Fido969
Very little trading gets done on the floor.

You ever watch CNBC and the floor traders scramble to look like they are doing something when CNBC does a live feed.

Only the most complex of deals are done on the floor, and even when that does happens a sizable part of the deal is done in private - off exchange. That's the nature of mergers and acquisitions these days.

28 posted on 09/11/2020 7:30:44 AM PDT by ConservativeInPA ("War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." - George Orwell, 1984)
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To: Theoria

Just about anything other than a mine can be moved elsewhere.

I know of a couple who moved their entire dairy cow herd from upstate New York to Colorado some years ago. after 2 location changes within the state due to urban sprawl & rezoning-—they found new property on Colorado.

The arranged with multiple dairies across the USA to unload, milk their cows, spend the night, milk again in the AM, and resume traveling. I think their herd was at least 300+++ cows. The payment for the overnight was the milk they gave those farmers.

They took 5 days, IIRC, and they did NOT lose a single cow. The logistics of setting up that move stagger my imagination. Timing was critical, as cows get very restless when they are not milked on time.

Sometimes, you just have to vote with your feet....


29 posted on 09/11/2020 7:38:13 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: KarlInOhio
A one mile change in length of the wires/fiber optic cables means a 5.3 microsecond change in one direction communication speed.

I was thinking along similar lines, although the distance is a lot closer. Institutional traders have their servers co-located with the exchange servers. Cable distance is measured in feet. I would assume (nasty word) the co-located servers are part of the fail over site in IL and that there are SLA's in place that offer a specified maximum latency. Despite that smaller firms that cannot afford to be co-located get hit the worst.

30 posted on 09/11/2020 7:38:33 AM PDT by ConservativeInPA ("War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." - George Orwell, 1984)
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To: KarlInOhio
The high speed trading algorithms have gotten so ridiculous that microseconds matter. A one mile change in length of the wires/fiber optic cables means a 5.3 microsecond change in one direction communication speed. They don't want to move if they don't have to.

The real issue is that if NYSE moves the computers, the traders will follow them and NJ will lose the income tax these guys pay to the state. The jobs are very high paid.

OTOH, I doubt the RATs that run the state are smart enough to realize this.

31 posted on 09/11/2020 7:40:35 AM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: jz638

What should the speed limit for trading be?


32 posted on 09/11/2020 8:14:10 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle ( The Great Wall of Trump ---- 100% sealing of the border. Coming soon.)
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To: Theoria

Kill the goose and then complain it’s not laying any eggs.


33 posted on 09/11/2020 8:22:32 AM PDT by captain_dave
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To: VanDeKoik

(flips light switch in NJ off, and flips another one on in a different state)

They will eventually end up getting chased to Texas or South Dakota.


34 posted on 09/11/2020 8:29:37 AM PDT by Rebelbase (Plugs/Jugs 2020....Joe/Ho 2020...)
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To: Theoria
This is about corrupt Phail Murphy conspiring with corrupt New York to profit the large traders at the expense of the smaller ones.

You saw it with the New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania collusion over COVID-19 where these states were setting their own restrictions to keep businesses from crossing lines to avoid them.

Ultimately, all it's going to do is force companies farther away from the Communist Democrat ones.

35 posted on 09/11/2020 8:33:42 AM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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To: Buckeye McFrog
Get to work on a facility in South Dakota.

It's no accident why South Dakota has so much credit card processing.

36 posted on 09/11/2020 8:38:48 AM PDT by gogeo (It isn't just time to open America up again: It's time to be America again.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Or anything else for that matter


37 posted on 09/11/2020 8:45:31 AM PDT by mrmeyer (You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. Robert Heinlein)
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To: Theoria

Nobody saw that one coming, nope nobody.


38 posted on 09/11/2020 8:54:39 AM PDT by VTenigma (The Democrat party is the party of the mathematically challenged)
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To: DEPcom
“New York Stock Exchange will temporarily run one exchange from Chicago to show its readiness to move”

I wonder if Chicago or Illinois would try to tax in the future too. Chicago is broke.


I'm sure they would/will, the only issue is that NYSE already has backup servers setup in Chicago. So it's not so easy to move elsewhere, although I'm sure if they do move to Chicago, everything in NJ will almost definitely move to a new backup location in Dallas or somewhere.
39 posted on 09/11/2020 9:46:13 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: Balding_Eagle
What should the speed limit for trading be?

The Speed of Light. It's not just a good idea, it's the Law!

40 posted on 09/11/2020 10:44:57 AM PDT by zeugma (Stop deluding yourself that America is still a free country.)
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