Posted on 11/03/2023 6:52:24 AM PDT by Tell It Right
While “Christian revival” was successful due to the expulsion of religion from governance, in Islam it is exactly the opposite -- Islam was successful in its first 1,200 years precisely due to the dominance of religion in government and society. Islam experienced decline only with the advent into the Islamic world of Western political systems, European nationalism, and secularism in the last 300 years.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Keep in mind that when the author writes about separation of church and state in the 17th century, it doesn't mean it like the Dims demand it today. Today the Dims means it as an elected leader can't pray in public. But back then it means the church can't decide who's in charge in government or control government in other ways. IMHO, that's how many Muslims see their caliphate empires declining centuries ago -- to them it's when the imams quit having a say on who's in charge. To them it's like: we've tried separation of mosque and state and it doesn't work, we won't keep doing it, we'll go back to what worked centuries before that and we'll do whatever it takes to get there.
Every Jew and every American, well for that matter, every European needs to read a true translation of the Holy Quran or Koran.
Then they might understand why this is happening and why it will never stop happening. IMHO these are probably the most accurate translations, and they are FREE.
I read the Koran shortly after “some people did something”. I was appalled at how violent Muhammad’s teachings are.
There is no misunderstanding of true Islam. Islamic peace requires total submission & disrespect to nonbelievers of humanity. Koran is a perpetual war plan.
People the Pres Bush saying it’s a peaceful religion… Liar of the millennium!!!!
just listened to and watched Blinkin press conference and speech ... bottom line of his message... “Why can’t we all just get along.”
For Christianity, nationalism and the separation of church from government in Europe was a success, resurrecting Christian Europe from decline. Three hundred years of world domination followed, marked by the Enlightenment, European colonization of the Americas, and the industrial revolution, as Europe led the world into the era of Modernity. Europe also exported its Western culture and concept of “nationalism” to the entire world. However, nationalism, which evolved from Christianity’s historic trials, would never integrate successfully into the world of Islam where loyalty could only be to God, the sovereign of the world and all mankind.
The above doesn't seem to be correct at all. What the Wars of Reformation and the Thirty Years War did was replace the primacy of the Church with the primacy of the Prince. The Treaty of Westphalia established the principle that the reigning monarch determines the religion of his subjects.
It did not separate church and state. It reversed the relationship. For example, the Anglican church was still the established church in England, just as before the Reformation, but the Bishop of Canterbury reported to the King and not to the Pope.
Concepts of separation of church and state along with religious freedom came later.
I don’t misunderstand Islam. They want to kill or convert every non Muslim in the known world.
I have ZERo interest in being anything other than cautious
As was his life
Maybe not lying as much as totally confused
read the hadiths and sunnahs for the inside secrets of islam
Hadiths are Mohammed’s word to his followers, The Sunnahs are the history of Muhammad and his motto (sic) was “Kill, kill, kill”
“I was appalled at how violent Muhammad’s teachings are.”
I don’t see the competition between islam and christianity. Islam is a big a lie as another “religion” in the US. The only competition I see is what is made so by people to gain advantage and destroy the other one.
There is no, and never has been, a muslin religion of peace. Any time a culture has to use threats, violence, inconsistent actions along with lies to everyone including itself, it can only be considered a sect rather than a religion. We have another one like it here in the US, and around the world, that made no effort to conceal its actions…. and we call it Satanism.
The Satanic Bible is a collection of essays, observations, and rituals published by Anton LaVey in 1969. It is the central religious text of Satanism, and is considered the foundation of its philosophy and dogma. It contains violent theological questions or determinations for religion, crime, mass suicide that is consistent with modern societies, and that there can be no peace in a satanic world.
Do you see the similarities between Satanism and islam? They mirror each other in that violence is their first and last resort to success in their philosophies and that they have a totally inconsistent outlook with the Christian determination of deity from theirs. They are a huge threat to any country in the world; past, present and future. But as long as they can prey upon people with bribery and threats, they will continue to grow like a cancer. And in the US they are given tax free status.
wy69
Oh, forgot to mention, “thank G_d I’m not a muslim”.
A quote from an 1899 book by Winston Churchill, "The River War", in which he describes Muslims he apparently observed during Kitchener's campaign in the Sudan
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
Not an easy fact to accept, but a fact nonetheless.
Good comments here and at the source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Anger
“Age of Anger” by Pankaj Mishra is a good treatment of the rejection of the West by Muslim societies.
Note that the same rejection is present to a lesser degree in Hindu and Confucian societies.
The colonialism in the Americas, Africa, Australia and Southeast Asia mostly from 1500 to 1800 did not engender much blowback.
Colonialism in North Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and East Asia during from 1800 on was much different. These were old and sophisticated societies subjected to prolonged grinding subjugation. The resentment of European and US imperialism began long ago and has been simmering for decades.
I agree somewhat with you and somewhat with the author. IMHO, the control of church over state was more intense before and during the Thirty Years War, particularly in light of the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand II's edict in 1619 to force citizens of all states in the empire to adhere to the RCC. While Emperor Ferdinand wasn't the pope (Paul V was pope in 1619), he made sure everybody knew he was Jesuit and believed wholeheartedly in papal supremacy -- to the point of trying to force the Protestant states of the Empire to becoming Catholic. In light of that, the Treaty in 1648 is a step toward separation of church and state (author was right). However, you're right in that more separation was needed after the treaty.
Current Christianity and current Islam are very different.
But Islam grew out of a religious environment which included Ebionites, Monophysites, and various other Eastern Christianities. Historical Islam and these historical Christianities are much more similar.
Correct! Westphalia’s continued the marriage of church and state. Those who did not follow State Religion (e.g. Roman and Protestant) were persecuted and killed (e.g anabaptists, Jews, etc.)
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