URGENT - Need Freeper Legal Help / Referral - Nashville TN area

The Vanity Times | 01/08/02 | Wright is right!

[Wright is right!]

I just got the most disturbing notice in the mail. A government agency in Detroit is trying to dredge up an old legal case that I settled with the complainant almost 18 years ago - and to try to milk it for more money. This one, knowing the legal machinery in Detroit, is one I probably cannot win pro se. Here's the capsule verion:

1968. Youthful indiscretion. I father a child out of wedlock, have no defense, wind up paying some nominal sum of child support ($15 a week or so). Sometimes I pay, sometimes I don't. My job moves me around a lot.

Fast Forward to 1986. The gal and "child" (by now nearing 18) are living in Albuquerque (Bernalillo Co.) NM. Gal is married, goes by married name. I'm in San Diego.

One day I get a call from the Bernalillo Co. Child Protective Guacamole Service or some such agency. There's one in every county. Lady ID's herself, says what the call is about, and asks what I proposed to do about the child support.

I said, "How much cash to settle the entire thing and be done with it?" She says, "How much are you proposing?"

I had a piano I knew I could instantly turn for $2600, so that's the amount I offered. She promised to get back to me in a couple of days.

When she called back, she said that the mother had agreed to the settlement. I was to make out the check for $2600 to Bernalillo Co. CPS and she gave me the address. I asked her to promise that I'd get something in writing. If I even did, it's long lost. That was 17 years, almost 18 years ago.

FAST FORWARD to PRESENT - The case went away, at least so I thought. Not one peep out of Detroit, the original filing jurisdiction, not one peep out of any of the jurisdictions thru which the case had passed, not one peep out of Bernalillo Co., and most certainly not one peep out of the mother, with whom I subsequently became, for a while, email friends.

Until today. When I find in my mailbox a notice from Friend Of The Court in Detroit that they have "determined that I owe past-due child/spousal support" in the amount of over $7500. Under 42 USC 654(31) all sorts of bad things can occur if this so-called arrearage is reported to the US State Department, not to mention the IRS and various credit-reporting agencies.

So, here we go. Case gets settled in 1986. It's now 18 years later, and with no foundation other than a case number, Friend Of The Court comes roaring back at me after making not a sound all these years. Weird, since they HAD to have gotten the settlement documentation from Bernalillo County or they would have been a lot hotter after me than waiting 18 years.

I have many questions. Are there statutes of limitations that might apply here? Is there a Federal statute governing reasonable retention of records? 18 years is a lot of time to have to hold onto something all parties agreed is settled. And many more.

If anyone knows a good Freeper atty. in the Nashville TN area who would be willing to handle such a case for a reasonable fee, then could someone refer me?

Please use Freep Mail for referrals or anything you feel doesn't belong in a posting. Thanks in advance!

Michael

[babygene]

I'ed pay the $7500 and consider that I got off easy... Less than $10,000 could have cost you $100,000. Just try to make sure your kid gets it.

[riley1992]

Youthful indiscretion. I father a child out of wedlock, have no defense, wind up paying some nominal sum of child support ($15 a week or so). Sometimes I pay, sometimes I don't. My job moves me around a lot.

Pay the money and I hope any subsequent children you had were luckier than that one was.

[gg188]

Friend: that you so cavalierly shirked your responsibility is very disturbing. If I were you I would never have posted this. I don't see how any conservative can have any sympathy for a man who was not a father to his child. In 1968, 15 bucks a week was not a small amount of money. My wife and I rented our first apartment (a decent, two room) for 60 bucks a month in 1970. One of my first jobs I remember having paid 60 dollars a week. I imagine that your child could have used 60 bucks a month back then. Moreover, a court shouldn't have been required to make you do your duty, and that 1$5 should have been raised voluntarily by you during the 18 years that followed.

Money would be the least of my concern if I had to live with that the rest of my life. I am not preaching to you. I will leave that to Dr. Laura.

I, too, had a youthful indiscretion at age 19, and that indiscretion is now a 30 year old man whose every moment has been a light in my life. My only regret is that I couldn't live our first glorious 18 years of his life over and over again. I cannot imagine what it would have been like to have abandoned him. I couldn't live with myself if I had.

[Dust in the Wind]

Pay it and consider yourself poorer, not for having made your mild support finally, but in having missed out on your childs growing years which might have helped you to grow also.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Pay the money and get a release form. 'Tis a pity that the child had neither the funds, nor your moral support, while growing up. No wonder this country is so screwed up. In the future, keep better records.

[Tacis]

Do a Google search. There are lots of law firms out there that specialize in child support cases. They may have FAQ pages that will give you guidance. It seems very unlikely that your $2600 payment was a settlement for a stream of payments that was mandated over about 18 years. It probably only covered the outstanding debt up to that point. Maybe you could get Bareback Jackson's lawyer to take on your case pro bono. But, as my colleagues here have said, if you are looking for sympathy or support, you have come to the wrong place!

[Wright is right!]

"I'ed pay the $7500 and consider that I got off easy."

So, to you, two wrongs make a right, eh? I just recently finished up battling off a car insurance company that wanted to gig me for 3 grand over some accident that neither my car nor I were in - in a place in GA I've never heard of that occured while my wife and I were in Spain.

I've admitted my sin, and the long version I left out includes the fact that the mother, I and the now-32year-old son have made peace with the situation.

There are some people who simply are not cut out to be parents. Back in those days, I was one. And now I'm supposed to just roll over every time some fraud comes thru the front door?

I don't think so.

Michael

[Wright is right!]

"Pay the money and I hope any subsequent children you had were luckier than that one was."

Once again, two wrongs must, to you, make a right. Apparently, fraud is OK to you if used to address the behavior of a Freeper you don't know. I admitted my sin, and have atoned for it in far more ways than monetarily. That's none of your business. But when someone dredges up a case, settled 18 years ago, and tries to press it hoping I'll tremble in my boots and pay up a second time - you think that's somehow a fitting conclusion. Do you really think they'll stop at this?

As for having other children - I learned long ago that I have not the patience to make a good parent - at least, not back in those days. I chose not to have any more.

Michael

[Wright is right!]

"Friend: that you so cavalierly shirked your responsibility is very disturbing. If I were you I would never have posted this. I don't see how any conservative can have any sympathy for a man who was not a father to his child."

Not all conservatives are life-long conservatives. Many things have shaped my life, this situation being one of them. I've admitted my sin, yet you feel it incumbent that you flog me anyway, after the fact. And, in so doing, implying that 2 wrongs (my sin + their fraud) somehow add up to a right.

I expected outrage at a system that would flog a guy for money he didn't owe. Instead, I get flogged for admitting a sin for which I've since atoned in more ways than one.

I will eagerly await your next pious homily.

Michael

[riley1992]

I think, Michael, where you are seeing all of this come from is your easy come, easy go attitude in your description of what happened in 1968. That set the tone for the rest of what you wrote.

[Wright is right!]

"'Tis a pity that the child had neither the funds, nor your moral support, while growing up."

Most of the money I DID pay. This was a settlement going into my final year of obligation. Rest assured, however, that the child would NOT have seen the money. My moral support, for what it was back then, wouldn't have been worth much either. We all change. I have. I'd probably make a pretty fair parent these days, but sure as heck NOT back then.

"In the future, keep better records."

That was 7 moves ago. And just how long does one have to keep a piece of paper that, by all acknowledgements, has long since blown over and been settled? I know, I know, there are people who have every scrap of paper from their first gold star in 1st grade to yesterday's gas receipt. There DOES come a limit, ya know?

Michael

[Wright is right!]

"It seems very unlikely that your $2600 payment was a settlement for a stream of payments that was mandated over about 18 years. It probably only covered the outstanding debt up to that point."

Nope, I gave you only the short version. At the child's borthday 12 months hence, had I paid nothing, the total would have been around $3400. So offering $2600 a year ahead of time seemed reasonable. It must have to her, too, since she accepted it.

Everything else I owed I'd caught up on. I knew that account right down to the penny.

Michael

[Wright is right!]

"I think, Michael, where you are seeing all of this come from is your easy come, easy go attitude in your description of what happened in 1968. That set the tone for the rest of what you wrote."

I've read several litanies of Freepers' legal woes on this board, pages and pages and pages and pages - and I wondered just when we would ever get to the point. What happened, where is this goin? That sort of thing. After that, I thought the capsule version would be appreciated. The actual circumstances, as I said, spanned 18 years and held many many chapters. I didn't think anyone would be interested in it - OR even get to the part where the Friend Of The Court in Detroit is now running dead cases over the broiler to see if they can get a second Whopper out of them.

Sometimes, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Interestingly enough, all the Freeper Mail has been 100% diametrically opposed to what's on this thread. Very supportive, and thanks to you who've mailed.

BTW - one of the effects of the entire episode was to turn me 100% Pro Life. Funny how things like that happen.

Michael

[BJungNan]

The practical side of this - and all other editorial comment aside - this is going to be a dollars, time and sense decision. The dollar will likely be the easy part, which is why I think many one here have told you to just pay it and consider yourself lucky.

The time this will cost you will be twofold: (1) your time and your lawyers time. I don't know what you do for a living, but it should not be too hard to go out an earn an extra $7,500 a week. I'd rather take that second job to pay the bill rather than spend aggrevating hours in a court room or a lawyers office and stewing over whether I was going to win or not. (2) Your lawyers time. This translates into money. If you win, maybe you save maybe $3,500. You have to check what a lawyer will charge for this and I suspect it will vary. Don't take the first lawyer that you talk to without talking to three of four more - there goes more time. As for making sense of this situation, don't try to. It will only eat at you. Get at it and get it over with and get over it as quickly as you can. Some have been harsh on here - as they are justified - but you have made peace with the parties and if they forgive you then who are we to say differently. What really makes sense, though, is what was said in an earlier post: $7,500 is really cheap for 18 years. Just pay it.

[Badray]

Michael, you say that you and your ex and your son are now on good terms, right? Ask THEM if they want this pursued through the court system and if they don't, have them put it writing and get it notarized and submit it to the court.

In my second marriage I was the step father of two children whose father rarely paid anything in support. At one point he got a letter from the court demanding $34,000.00 to avoid arrest. When he approached us (in tears and scared $#!+less) my wife wrote to the court relieving him of all liability and they accepted it and dropped the issue.

[Pilsner]

In Texas child support is payable -- assuming the child is not handicaped -- through the time the child is 18, and a bit longer if they are still in high school. After child support is no longer payable the custodial parent would have four years to file suit, before the the non-custodial parent may plead the statute of limitations. You should find out (1) where you ever sued, (2) was a judgment ever rendered, and (3) what exactly do they want -- (3a)unpaid support that will go to the mother, or (3b) reimbursement for welfare shelle dout by the Michigan taxpayers for your kid. If it is 3a your prior payment might constitute satisfaction of the womans claim -- if you can document it(check with New Mexico, if you were sued there you can order documents from the Clerk of the Trial Court)-- if it is 3b neither the mother nor New Mexico could have legally released you from a debt owed to Michigan.

All that said I wouldn't spend much money to have an attorney defend a child support collection case if you have any defense except "I paid, and here are the receipts your Honor." The last child support case I defended had something going for it: my client allowed ex-wife and kids to live in his house for a couple of years while he paid the mortgage and lived elsewhere (they weren't back together, she even had her boyfriend there for a while). He says they had an agreement that it was in lieu of child support, she said it was not. I think the Judge believed my client more than his ex-wife, but the ruling from the bench began "I don't know who is lying, but if I'm going to make an error I'm going to make it in favor of support being paid..." So by all means hire a lawyer to make sure you aren't screwed, but don't spend anything trying to sell the Court any "I moved around a lot" defense.

[afraidfortherepublic]

That was 7 moves ago. And just how long does one have to keep a piece of paper that, by all acknowledgements, has long since blown over and been settled?

I'm not trying to dump on you. It's just that some legal records need to be kept forever: birth certificates, sales of houses, stocks, marriage records, divorce records, etc. I think that child support settlements would probably fall into that same category. Sorry for your problem and sorry for your son. I'm sure that he would have benefited from your presence in his life more than you know.

[afraidfortherepublic]

I should have added that not only would the boy have benefited from knowing his father, you may have benefited from knowing your son. It is amazing the effect that a child can have on a parent. Sometimes children are our best role model! Why don't you try to get to know him now?