Kensington Rune Stone

myself | 1-9-02 | myself

[crystalk]

I had never heard that suggested, but a year or so ago in Ancient American there was an article on a Wisconsin Indian Mound that was excavated some 120 years ago, and had a horse's head in it at least, if not the whole animal, from a clearly pre-Columbian date.

It is becoming thinkable in other words, to argue that some horses were here in America before the Spanish lost a few in the 1500's...I always did think that very large herds indeed of wild horses were in the West awfully soon, to have arisen from just the few the Spanish could have lost...

[Free Trapper]

A quick google search(when did the horse get to america)has 2 horse skulls in mounds,one a hoax,the other must be your reference.I've not had time to read the sight yet (later),but it looks interesting.Their basic premise looks like horses being brought in by Scandinavians,Celts,or Asians.Sorry,I don't know how to link,computer illiterate,and can't type,but I'm learning. Oxen could have been handy too. Think about how Lewis and Clark managed their little trip,using different size boats,horses,and footmen.

[Free Trapper]

Sometimes my family(4 homeschoolers,wife,myself)takes large boats as far as we can,then we each take a canoe or small boat into different areas with shallower water.After filling a canoe,back to a(freight)boat to unload,then back out.When a large boat is filled a(crew)takes it in to unload. If our Norsemen got along with the locals and could split into small parties with a similar system they could cover a lot of territory.Imagine what they could do with a few pack animals going overland to rendezvous with their watermen up or downstream. If they were going to make their trip pay they would have come as well prepared as possible to explore the land and carry home anything of value.

[crystalk]

Geez, FT, you make me feel like I was 10 years old again. Where do you live, Alaska? It sounds like you'd like to see America again like it was back in 1362...

Might have liked to try it myself when I was younger, but right now here in Fla. I turn on the heat if it gets under 50 outside.

[Free Trapper]

America?1362?No,too crowded.Every time you turn around,you bump into another dern Norseman.They're all over the place!I got cut off trying to read that horses in America sight,but it did look good.Maybe in the morning.Now I have to tuck Lurker(Pitbull-Honeydog mix)in and catch a nap.

[PaulKersey]

>Every time you turn around,you bump into another dern Norseman

It's true. Amazing how 1% of the American population can be everywhere, yet so invisible. Does that mean we are part of the establishment? (Is it true that George Washingtons Mother was Norse?)

[Free Trapper]

Part of the establishment?Maybe,but American makes more sense to me.I'm mostly Welsh,Choctaw,Comanche;with other thrown in for good measure.Unless ancestry comes up I'm considered white,as are most of the people I know with Indian blood unless their appearance is overwhelmingly Indian.My wife is asked if she is Indian all the time(long dark hair),I never am,and she doesn't have a drop in her.Indians I know consider themselves Indian,not Native American,unless part of the PC crowd.We all fit together as one great Nation,except the few that believe they deserve special treatment.(Americans)don't stand out usually in a crowd of other Americans unless they do so on purpose.

[TexanToTheCore]

My own theory is that most archaeologists are not boat owners.
If they were, the proximity of Greenland to North America would be a dead give-away that the Norse were in North America very early. If I remember it would be about 150 hours sailing time (at 4 knots), a short trip.
You probably couldn't keep them out.

[TexanToTheCore]

Let me be more specific about boat people. A seven day sail barly qualifies as a "fun sail". It was probably done often. Since the Norse discovered Iceland and Greenland,it positively inconceivable that they didn't continue their sailing after establishing a foothold on Greenland, probably within a year of arriving.
Possibly for the sheer fun of it.

[TexanToTheCore]

The stone was probably ballast for a shallow draft boat. The width of it my be the width of the boat used.

[crystalk]

Norwegian-surnamed Americans are more numerous than 1% of the population. In fact, it is very close to 2% (1.93%)...It would appear that Swedes are higher still, some 2.25 to 2.5%.

I saw a little item last month that said that Norway has the same population as Jews in Israel, some 5.3 million, and the USA has the same number of Norwegian surnamed persons as is does Jews, some 5.6 million...

Denmark would add another 0.3% and Iceland some 0.1%.

[crystalk]

I show that the Washingtons were originally "Vessings-sons" and this supposedly refers to an ancestral home in Norway, as would be common for northeast Englanders.

[crystalk]

They were always missing Cape Farvel at the south tip of Greenland, and another day or two they hit the North American coast. Storms, a little navigation error, and here they are. Not just in 985 AD, but in 1985 BC!

[crystalk]

Make that 0.5% for Denmark.

[crystalk]

So maybe they even had stones cut to this size and shape, to fit the boat hull...I wonder if anyone has ever analyzed the stone to see if it might be from Europe, Greenland, or Iceland...but it was always said to be not from the local outcropping on the hill (now called Runestone Hill) where it was found...

[TexanToTheCore]

Most likely the stones would be from the entry point on the northern coast. If someone cares to dig around the hill they may find other ballast stones, as they were frequently dumped when not needed. It may also be an indication that there is the ruins of a boat nearby.
By the way, this method of keeping a saling boat upright is still used, I know of several designs that are very shallow and are kept upright by pouring concrete with rebar into the hold. It eliminates a centerboard or keel. I think the last one I saw was a "Friendhsip Sloop", 18 feet and a beauty from stem to stern, with very little draught.

[crystalk]

Build one and see if it will float in the Red River from Winnepeg south to central Minnesota.

[crystalk]

oh, oh , yes I know that is upstream, but how much current could there be in THAT?

[Free Trapper]

I agree on boat people.Those guys were at home with their boats. Just because todays average boater only goes out for pleasure,people seem to believe fancy equipment and nice weather are the only way to get on the water.

[TexanToTheCore]

It may be that the ballast stone was removed from the larger ship that arrived from Greenland and the original quarry or rocky beach is located there or in Europe.
By the way, a ship can be sailed up river, it was frequently done with British and French warships and is an old, old technique. Additionally, they were able to sail the ship sideways upriver ( as was done by the French at Yorktown) and it was a common skill that apparently was not considered to be too difficult
They could have used oars or pulling horses up the Red River, as has been done for thousands of years. If the area was marsh and flooded, the river would have a much slower current than it does today.