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Seat Belt Law Opposition sites

Posted on 12/28/2002 9:05:12 AM PST by Ape_Man_Jack

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

In case you are interested, there is now a web site dedicated to seat belt law opposition which was created by someone in the Chicago area. The web site address is:

www.seatbeltchoice.com

In Washington state there is a group working to repeal their seat belt law. The web site address is:

www.clickitstickit.com

Another web site worth viewing (still in the composition stage) is:

www.sukkahs.com/seatbelt

www.sukkahs.com/seatbelt/ticket.htm


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KEYWORDS: copernicus4; seatbeltlaws
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Good Information!
1 posted on 12/28/2002 9:05:12 AM PST by Ape_Man_Jack
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
I can't believe it -- the same name I thought of!
www.clickitstickit.com
2 posted on 12/28/2002 9:06:29 AM PST by lelio
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
Thanks.

20 years ago Washington State DOT had signs everywhere saying "Buckle Up -- We Love You" (yeah, sure). A few years later a mandatory seat-belt law was passed, but the politicians promised us (yeah, sure) that we could never be pulled over and ticketed for failing to wear our seatbelts.

Now the DOT signs say "Buckle Up -- It's The Law" (Yeah, well, at least that's honest) and we can be pulled over and ticketed for not wearing seatbelts. So much for politicians' promises.

(I'm alive today because I installed and wore a seatbelt decades ago. But keep the government out of it.)

3 posted on 12/28/2002 9:15:48 AM PST by Eala
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To: Eala
(I'm alive today because I installed and wore a seatbelt decades ago. But keep the government out of it.)

Unfortunately, the taxpayers are the ones who end up paying for the "independence" of those who refuse to buckle up. Until they enact a rule saying Medicare and Medicaid won't pay for any medical treatment/rehab required by a person because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, I think the law is fair. The military does it with motorcycles - if a soldier is injured when not wearing the appropriate gear (helmet, long sleeves, long pants, etc.) he's responsible for his own medical bills.

4 posted on 12/28/2002 9:22:52 AM PST by Spyder
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To: Eala
My favorite moment in all this was one of the politican sponsors talking about how she lost a daughter in a car accident as she wasn't wearing her seat belt.
While I'm sorry for her loss, but does this mean that if she's walking her dog and it runs away we're going to be socked with a law requiring GPS units on dogs? When does this insanity of the Nanny State end?
Course the $86 they collect for a violation didn't have anything to do with this law passing. What amazes me is that when we're being told to be on the lookout for terrorists and they're coming over the Canadian border willy-nilly our legislators decided that they needed to tell us to put a belt on, and they'll fine us if we don't.
5 posted on 12/28/2002 9:25:53 AM PST by lelio
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To: Spyder
Until they enact a rule saying Medicare and Medicaid won't pay for any medical treatment/rehab required by a person because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt
Here, here. I'm glad the military does something sane in this regard. I can't believe the number of people I've seen on motorcycles with a helmet but just wearing a shirt!
When I had my two bike accidents the helmet didn't really do anything -- I flipped over and landed on my back and in the other one I went sliding. If I didn't have my padded jacket the road would have a nice sheen of my skin on it. Likewise with boots, if I weren't wearing them I'm sure my ankles would of snapped.
6 posted on 12/28/2002 9:30:07 AM PST by lelio
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To: Eala
(I'm alive today because I installed and wore a seatbelt decades ago. But keep the government out of it.)

What a coincidence. I'm alive today because I REFUSED to wear a seat belt when I was younger. Six of one, half-dozen of another. I agree, however...keep the government OUT of it...and the insurance companies, as well.



7 posted on 12/28/2002 9:33:40 AM PST by who knows what evil?
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
I've never worn a seat belt in my life and i'm just waiting for some cop to try to write me since I drive a 65 pickup and they didn't start putting seat belts into pickups until 66, can't use what isn't there.

I don't believe in them anyway, at least for the driver. Proper use of your arms and legs can save you from almost any accident. I've rolled 2 trucks and a car and plowed into the back of a semi going 5mph when I was doing 70 and have never gotten more than a few superfical cuts. Most of it pure instinct and experience from racing cars. Always wore full seat belt and shoulder harness if the car had a full roll cage but would never wear shoulder harness in one that didn't.
8 posted on 12/28/2002 9:34:21 AM PST by dalereed
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
Whenever I hear the government saying "This is for your safety," I cringe, for I know that my rights are about to be trampled upon. I despise all seat belt laws (even the ones for children) because it gives police officers yet another excuse to pull you over and shine a flashlight into your car in the middle of the night - just like in Nazi Germany.

Here in Massachusetts, Mike Dukakis (remember him?) was big on seat-belt laws and got one passed in the 1980s when he was governor here. The citizens of Massachusetts, spurred on by local talk radio host Jerry Williams, got the law repealed in 1986! This made Mike Dukakis very angry and embarrassed him just as his presidential campaign was getting off the ground. Eventually, Massachusetts lawmakers went against the wish of the voters and sneaked the bill back into law when nobody was looking. When the law went back into place, the politicians made it clear that the law would not be pro-actively enforced. That is, police officers would not be able to stop a car just to check for seat belts. But of course, that would not be the case. A few years went by and that directive was quietly overturned as well. Now we are beginning to see actual roadblocks with cops checking for seat belts. All under the guise of "public safety" of course. This is what is coming to the rest of America, if you let it.

9 posted on 12/28/2002 9:41:23 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
BUMP for the nanny-state.

If they were serious about this for the sake of safety they wouldn't make it a law to wear seat belts, but rather they would allow insurance companies to offer seatbelt-only coverage.

No, this whole thing is about CONTROL.

Here in Florida they have this laughable poster of an African American, female state trooper brandishing a seatbelt like a club with the title "It's the Law." Every time I see this I find myself wondering exactly what percentage of the troopers are actually African American AND female.

I could do no better job ridiculing the government than it does on its own (well, ok, I guess I could have put her in a wheel chair!)

10 posted on 12/28/2002 10:18:58 AM PST by The Duke
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To: The Duke
"If they were serious about this for the sake of safety they wouldn't make it a law to wear seat belts, but rather they would allow insurance companies to offer seatbelt-only coverage."

I would happily wear a seat belt if I entered into a mutual contract with an insurance agency under these conditions.

But when the Nanny State says I have to: All the more beligerent I get.

Give me freedom, and I'll take care of my own safety.

11 posted on 12/28/2002 10:26:57 AM PST by Bob Mc
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To: who knows what evil?
You were simply lucky. Seat belts save lives. Do you perform crash tests personally to refute the accepted idea that seat belts are a good thing?
12 posted on 12/28/2002 10:35:13 AM PST by RockyMtnMan
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To: Bob Mc
" But when the Nanny State says I have to: All the more beligerent I get."

I'm the same way. After years of wearing a seat belt, I have recently quit wearing it. I won't use a 'hands free' phone either if it becomes mandatory.

13 posted on 12/28/2002 10:53:03 AM PST by Badray
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To: RockyMtnMan
Seat belts save lives. Do you perform crash tests personally to refute the accepted idea that seat belts are a good thing?

Of course not. Sometimes seat belts save you, sometimes they kill you...luck of the draw. The FACT is; if I had been wearing a seat belt back in 1970, I would have been DEAD the last thirty -two years. If I am killed today for not wearing a seat belt, I am still up 32 years...I can live with that.



14 posted on 12/28/2002 11:44:59 AM PST by who knows what evil?
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To: RockyMtnMan
You were simply lucky. Seat belts save lives. Do you perform crash tests personally to refute the accepted idea that seat belts are a good thing?

Seat belts are of no use unless you wreck your car.

15 posted on 12/28/2002 12:00:31 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
Kennedy Schumer Clinton Franks fine examples of Govt. leaders who make decisions/piss laws about how folks need to live...
16 posted on 12/28/2002 12:12:34 PM PST by joesnuffy
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
Eliminate Mandatory Seatbelt use laws, switch to no fault insurance and then allow your insurance company which will now always be responsible for paying all of your claims to sell policies reducing pay-out for your pain and suffering if you aren’t wearing a seatbelt at the time of the accident. If you want to pay more you could buy a policy that would pay full coverage whether you were wearing a seatbelt or not, just like with no fault you could pay less by selecting a policy that would use less expensive after market replacement parts instead of original equipment. More choices and less regulation will save money and better establish the relationship between risk and the true costs involved.
17 posted on 12/28/2002 12:23:39 PM PST by The Obstinate Insomniac
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To: RockyMtnMan
Seat belt crash tests are fine for frontal collisions, involving a crash 'dummy' of average proportions.

Keep in mind that the average person also has one testicle, one breast capable (or formerly so) of lactation, one ovary, etc.

Statistics only show trends, and individuals are specific cases, which do not necessarily fit the trend.

So, for those of us whose physical parameters are a couple of standard deviations from the mean, or whose driving situations do not fit the freeway norm, let us make up our own mind what is or is not safe. I have been in situations where the use of a seat belt was appropriate, and have used one. In other cases, it was not. The day that North Dakota's first seat belt law went into effect, I was driving my wife home from the hospital with a row of staples in her tummy from the navel downward. The law dictated that she was to wear a lap belt and shoulder harness, common sense dictated otherwise.

Aside from one more reason to pull you over and meddle in your business, when all else you you were doing was right,(Mind if we search the vehicle, sir?--(A question with as many correct answers as 'Have you quit beating your wife?'), this is just another money maker. It doesn't matter that you have 10 years of accident-free driving, and no personal injury accidents in nearly 30 years, after, all, Ve haff vays of making you vear zis strap!

In reality, the Government really doesn't give a diddley squat whether you or I are safe, so much as alleviating the perception that it is 'losing' revenue. (Although a corpse costs $10-15,000 to take care of, a trauma unit patient 10+ times that.)

The same 'public cost' hype is waved around in regards to motorcycle helmet laws, with the flawed assumptions that the public picks up the cost, that helmets make you safe, and that crashes are inevitable, so let's make it safe to have a wreck, whether or not the 'safety' devices may be contributing factors in the accident.

Instead, the focus of studies should be on the root causes of traffic accidents, and how to prevent them entirely (no injuries, no property damage).

Then, maybe, we can get away from putting devices in automobiles which distract the driver from safely operating the vehicle and concentrate on the main mission, getting from point A to point B without being involved in an accident. DVD Players, Cell Phones, elaborate stereo systems, make-up mirrors, would all go the way of the dinosaur.

'Driving' in a sound proofed, insular world, only removes the operator from the reality outside which can kill you, or get someone else killed.

Instead people are burdened with just another invasive law on the way to the 'final solution' for common sense.

Oddly enough, the more safe people percieve themselves to be, the greater risks they take. I doubt you will find a decrease in accidents.

One last thing, the ability to duck might be the controlling factor in surviving a rear-ender with a semi going 65 miles per hour slower. Getting in that situation is another story, and I don't claim to know the details.

18 posted on 12/28/2002 12:35:02 PM PST by Smokin' Joe
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To: Ape_Man_Jack
Ape_Man_Jack signed up 2002-12-28.

Which one is yours?

BTW: Welcome to FR. You'll enjoy it here and you're among friends here.
19 posted on 12/28/2002 2:22:41 PM PST by Sparta
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To: dalereed
One of the dumbest posts I've ever read.
20 posted on 12/28/2002 2:49:06 PM PST by opinionator
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