Traditionalists preparing for Catholic conversion

Church of England Newspaper ^ | 4 December 2003 | staff writer

[ahadams2]

Ping.

[Eala]

American and Australian traditionalists are preparing to submit to papal authority should...

The Anglican participants are proposing communion with the Catholic Church, whilst retaining Anglican doctrine and liturgy.

“There are many Uniate churches with their own tradition, their own liturgical expression of faith, their own bishops and their own governing authority,”

I don't understand: Is it communion with, or submission to?

[ken5050]

OK, let's se..the ECUSA breaks up..we have a long and protracted legal battle to hold onto our property and treasure, so we join the RCs and get to fund the settlements for the pervert priests? Not me...

[ken5050]

OK, let's see..the ECUSA breaks up..we have a long and protracted legal battle to hold onto our property and treasure, so we join the RCs and get to fund the settlements for the pervert priests? Not me...

[ken5050]

I thought this was about the Aussies joining the US antimissile shield?

[Salvation]

Bumping this to read later!

[ahadams2]

You wrote "I don't understand: Is it communion with, or submission to?"

On that one you're going to ask the folks at Forward In Faith, sorry!

[Onelifetogive]

OK, let's se..the ECUSA breaks up..we have a long and protracted legal battle to hold onto our property and treasure, so we join the RCs and get to fund the settlements for the pervert priests? Not me...

This is commonly refered to as: "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire."

[trad_anglican]

Is it communion with, or submission to?

They're talking about a Uniate church, so it would definitely be the the first and it would be the second to a certain degree. To what degree has yet to be determined, which is why Fr. Moyer can't say much about it. It is also yet to be determined if this idea will work at all. It's unfortunate that this article has come out at this time because the talks that are going on are delicate and press coverage will not help the process along.

[trad_anglican]

we have a long and protracted legal battle to hold onto our property and treasure, so we join the RCs and get to fund the settlements for the pervert priests?

I don't think this is true. They're talking about a Uniate relationship, we would have our own bishops and ecclesiastical structure with our dioceses. We would not become a part of the local RC diocese.

[Eala]

On that one you're going to ask the folks at Forward In Faith, sorry!

Fair enough. But it still seems odd given the, um, traditional order of authority in the Anglican Communion wherein there is no one necessarily-infallible human authority, but instead at the top level is the council of primates.

I think of Article 26 ...

And if they submit, I guess they give up Article 19: "...the Church of Rome hath erred..." (Of course, if they submit, the Articles no longer govern.)

[NeoCaveman]

They're talking about a Uniate relationship, we would have our own bishops and ecclesiastical structure with our dioceses. We would not become a part of the local RC diocese.

Would this be a full fledged Anglican rite, similar to the Byzantine rite in Catholicsm, which is Catholic but not Roman Catholic while of course accepting papal supremacy?

I'm just guessing and going on limited knowledge.

[Unam Sanctam]

so we join the RCs and get to fund the settlements for the pervert priests?

I wouldn't think so if it is a different church akin to the Eastern Catholic churches affiliated with Rome. Such churches have substantial autonomy in ordering their own affairs, and retain the eastern tradition of married clergy. Even Anglican clergy that have entered the Western rite and become Catholic priests have been allowed to remain married. I would doubt that any liability for sins of the recent Latin priests would devolve upon any new Anglican Use congregations. That said, I do hope that the Vatican is relatively flexible in their negotiations with FIF.

[Eala]

I'd never heard of "Uniate" before, but now I think I understand...

[NeoCaveman]

They're talking about a Uniate relationship, we would have our own bishops and ecclesiastical structure with our dioceses.

I think you guys would defidently get that. I wonder though if doctrinal problems can be bridged such as an all male clergy (of course yours would continue to include married men without a problem), prohibition on birth control (despite the widespread diobedience by the faithful), and papal infallability (which is a rather limited concept, but still a binding one)

[trad_anglican]

Would this be a full fledged Anglican rite, similar to the Byzantine rite in Catholicsm, which is Catholic but not Roman Catholic while of course accepting papal supremacy?

I believe that's what Moyer and Hepworth (Primate of the Traditional Anglican Communion) are proposing. It's still in preliminary talks, though, so it's impossible to say how it would work or whether it would work at all. I do not believe they are talking about the Anglican Use option that has been in place for a number of years.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Byzantine rite in Catholicsm, which is Catholic but not Roman Catholic

Not correct. Byzantine Greeks and Slavs are Romans. They are not Latins. Everyone in the Catholic Church is Roman.

[NeoCaveman]

I believe that's what Moyer and Hepworth (Primate of the Traditional Anglican Communion) are proposing.

This Catholic would be quite happy with that.

[NeoCaveman]

Not correct. Byzantine Greeks and Slavs are Romans. They are not Latins. Everyone in the Catholic Church is Roman.

Thanks for the correction. You are a heck of a resource for Catholic knowledge.