"I am Cod and there is none like me;"
Here, try this.
In any case, I am reading this as possibly saying (see highlighted areas) that God's omniscience is dependent upon God's omnipotence.
In other words, God is not independently (truly) omniscient; His omniscience would disappear if His omniscience did not exist.
His omniscience would disappear if His omniscience did not exist.
Change to: His omniscience would disappear if His omnipotence did not exist.
I've found His omniscience and Omnipotence to be both part of His essence. Neither may be lessened due to another facet of His essence, as He is also is never changing in His integrity.
However, theological arguments based upon the conceptual definitions of His essence might not be as well expressed. Accordingly a number of false arguments might arise when discussing these parts of His essence separate from Scripture.
wow you guys think a lot. Can't wait to see what Alamogirl has to say here.
I believe that His omniscience and His omnipotence are two facets of the same Being. One is not dependent on the other.
***God foreknows the future because he has foreordained the future.***
Well, of course.
Genesis 15:13-14
Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.
BTW, I am watching Bruce Almighty as I type this. Remember out Bruce Almighty thread?
BRUCE ALMIGHTY: Atheism's Critique of Arminianism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1031277/posts
"In other words, he is telling me that God planned and caused every sin that every man has or will commit." -connectthedots on 5/31/04
You guys have run into trouble, recently, when saying "In other words...".
Don't you think that it might be time for you guys to try something different.
Jean
And how many angels can dance on . . .
Sigh.
Walter Martin had a good bit on this issue.
Too rushed and tired to get into it. Perhaps someone else will post it.
"I am Cod and there is none like me;"
Here, try this.
I think if God's ability to know the future is limited to only knowing what He causes to come about, then he is not omniscient at all, he is merely omnipotent and his omnipotency has structural limitations and boundaries.
"In other words..."
I think that these words capture the essence of this problem. Instead of taking the words used to describe God, at face value, we (all) try to "make sense of" those words.
Unfortunately, we use "other words." Thus, WE change the words which God, the Holy Spirit decided to use, to inform us of Him. We CANNOT actually comprehend the reality of God, because we are mortal, finite, and temporal, (for now) and He is not any of these.
Imagine what God is thinking, looking down at us, telling each other what He is like.
God IS, what IS. He has given us the Bible (and the natural world, and the Holy Spirit) to teach us about Him. Everything beyond THAT is "in other words."
Whoever "wins" one of these arguments has earned nothing. Nor, has he made the character of God fit his "other words."
The Character of God is what it is.
DG
p.s. I am not aiming this rant at you, personally. I am aiming it at all of us, including myself.
"If I knew Him I'd be Him."
I do not think that "God's omniscience is dependent upon God's omnipotence".
What I think is that God has a different relationship with time than we do. That's what makes him omniscient, is that He knows the future because he doesn't merely exist in the here and now, but in the future as well as in the past. As Jesus said, "Before Moses I AM".
Thus God can introduce prophecy in 3000 BC and already knows instantly the effect on man at the end of the age.
Otherwise, God's propheses that man will do evil are problematic. They would imply that God could only prophesy that man would do evil because He has the power to make man do evil. But if He does that, then man no longer is excercising free will and is not responsble for his acts.
But if God knows the future because He IS already in the future at the same time he is dealing with us, then man can have free will and neither God's omniscience or His omnipotence is affected.
While I agree that God works according to a plan, I do not believe that he manages it to the minutest detail. Again man's free will comes into play. God knows what man will choose because He's seen it already, but God doesn't force man to choose right or wrong. The extent of God's inteference is up to Him.
That unique relationship is also the only way that the believer's names could be written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, yet man still has a choice. They could not be written then, if man truly has a choice, and if God experiences time the same way we do, for they could not be known.