Posted on 10/08/2004 12:23:57 PM PDT by Area Freeper
Hence the term, "Born AGAIN", reffering to the spiritual sense. Nicodemus' answer must be understood in a facetious context, "What do I have to do, climb back into my Mother?" Our Lord's answer to him says it all; "You are Israel's teacher,and do you not understand these things?"
I don't think Nicodemus was being facetious. I think baffeled.
If you read verse 3:6 you see a further explanation by Jesus, which IMO, shows Jesus was talking of the physical birth and the spiritual.
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
In the context you are saying then there would be 3 births, physical, baptisamal, and spiritual???
Becky
For one thing, and this is subjective on my part, but merely desiring the Holy Spirit does not guarantee His appearance. (but it can't hurt)
And on the other side of the coin, your NOT seeking His Grace does not mean you will not receive it. You don't have to ask or desire it for it to be granted. But you can refuse it, in which case it will be lost.
Poppycock. The Holy Spirit doesn't have to materialize into flesh just to validate for you just so you can see or hear it. A closed mind, a closed heart, and a closed ear will never hear the Holy Spirit.
And on the other side of the coin, your NOT seeking His Grace does not mean you will not receive it.
To seek Grace last is to beg forgiveness first.
No, two births. One from the womb, and the second (born again) is spiritual. Though Baptism and the Grace of the Holy Spirit MAY (or may not) be separate events, they are both considered as spiritual.
It's just that Baptism and the Grace of the Holy Spirit are necessary steps to complete the one spiritual birth.
The unforgiveable sin. Denying the power of the Holy Ghost.
You don't seek 'Grace'. It seeks you. It's a gift!
I'm sorry. But I'm confused now. I took this comment from an earlier post of yours to mean you did not believe that our physical birth was part of the 2 births.
Now you said in this post you say that our birth from the womb is one of the 2.
No, two births. One from the womb, and the second (born again) is spiritual
If our birth from the womb is one of the 2 births, then why do you not think that is whaat Jesus was talking about in his reply to Micodemus when speaking of 2 births???? There is NO mention of baptism in the whole passage.
John 3:18 clearly tells us that belief in Christ is the only thing that will save us.
He that belieeveth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Please explain where baptism is the topic in verse 5. Just the mention of water???
Becky
Instead of me explaining it again, why don't you explain to me what your interpretation is of; "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water"
You have never explained why you think this is baptism. I am assuming it is because water is mentioned.
I have explained, just as Jesus did, why I believe that when he says born of water he is speaking of our physical birth. He explained in v. 6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Water birth is our physical birth. We are born surrounded by water.
Becky
You're putting me on, right?
Why do you think the verse is refering to baptism when baptism is never mentioned???? Can/wil you answer the question??? Do you think it's baptism because that is what your Catholic upbring has always told you???
Becky
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