Posted on 09/04/2005 12:44:12 PM PDT by TheStickman
Here's the latest chapter in my annulment saga/insanity/nitemare:
I received a letter from the Tribunal yesterday which has me wondering "who has misinformed who". For this to make sense I need to back up and tell you when my present wife sat down with the Deacon who worked with us on our annulments (parish priest is too busy to be bothered with them) 15+ months ago. The man looked us both in the eye and said, "If the exwife doesn't respond to the questionaire it will be handled as it would in any civil court. You sue someone, they don't respond or show up for court they lose, you win."
My ex-wife never responded to the Tribunal's questionaire.
15 months ago, the Deacon told my wife and I that I had to list 2 people as witnesses to the problems in my 1st marriage. I told him there were no witnesses to the problems in my 1st marriage (except for my in-laws and they aren't doing anything to assist me in any fashion and my parents who would cut off their arms with bread knives if they thought it would keep me from becoming Catholic and neither of them know all the gory details anyway), because I didn't advertise the awful things I was doing (I was a very bad husband) and there was not going to be any way to change that reality.
Deacon told me that I at least needed 2 witnesses who could confirm they knew my ex-wife and I were married. So I found 2 friends from way back who I knew would take the time to fill the questionaire and would do so honestly.
These 2 gals filled out the forms and sent them in.
Included in my original paperwork and in detail in the 40+ page written response to the main questionaire I filled out last year, I made mention of the fact I had been treated at X hospital by Doctor X for depression. This was relevant to one of the reasons for a defect of consent. I signed a release of information form, filled in the correct name of the doctor, address and the correct name of the hospital...sent it all in to the Tribunal.
Yesterday, I received a letter from the Tribunal telling me they received and read the responses from my 2 witnesses. However, because my 2 witnesses couldn't corroborate information in my statements (as I told the Deacon face-to-face and like I wrote in my responses to the Tribunal questionaire would be the case), to the Tribunal they were unacceptable. I have THREE WEEKS to come up with 2 new witnesses who can/will confirm my assertions. No such persons actually exist, but i have to come up with them anyway.
In this same letter, I read they never got a response from Doctor X nor the hospital I was treated in. No big surprise there since in this letter the Monsignor had the Doctor's name wrong and the name of the hospital wrong as well.
Also, in this letter from the Tribunal I learn my ex-wife hadn't responded to the questionaire (no surprise there) and because no one responding to the Tribunal's questionaire's could confirm or had knowledge of why my marriage to my 1st wife failed--they couldn't proceed to the hearing phase of my case.
I have 3 weeks to come up with folks who don't exist to fill out a questionaire that won't be back in the hands of the tribuanal in 21 days
My present (and final) wife, visualops, went to the Deacon mentioned above and asked him what in the world was going on. We had followed all his directions and now the case might be frozen in place. His cya response was, "I never said this would work out in your favor." My wife kindly informed him this wasn't about the annulment being granted or denied, it was about the case proceeding. "I'll call them tomorrow but I've done all I can."
I plan on calling the Tribunal office tuesday to let them know of the error of the Doctor's name and the hospital. The parish priest where I now attend daily Mass is going to assist me in trying to get info directly from this doctor and the hospital. Outside of that, anyone have any suggestions? We are praying often and regularly--for the people in the Tribunal and that God's Will be done one way or the other in the matter: granted or denied.
Any advice or assitance would be greatly appreciated.
You never mentioned a canon lawyer if I remember correctly. Do you have one? You might want to ask Dr. Edward Peters for some advice: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/enpeters/blog.htm
Also, ask your parents to be witnesses. They may not want you to be Catholic, but they know about your first wife in any case. They might help (I hope).
My Mom isn't going to help me either. She's glad I'm going church and hopes I'll one day soon return to her flavor of protestantism.
Thanks for the link. I will look it up.
Some canon lawyers work for nothing if they think there is a compelling reason. You might want to let Peters know what diocese you're in because he might be able to recommend someone there.
Also, I know of a case where a woman was told that she did not have to get her husband involved in any way when applying for an annulment. He was apparently very violent and she was deathly afraid of him. The chancellor of the diocese, who also sits on the tribunal, assured her they could keep him out of it. Now, that is normally impossible, but in that case there was a really good reason to do it that way. If you explained to the tribunal that there are witnesses, but that they won't cooperate because they don't want you to become a Catholic that might help. Perhaps you've already done that. I would remind them at least just so that they know you are absolutely serious on that point.
Dear TheStickman,
I don't have any good ideas at this point. I'll keep thinking.
However, I will continue to pray for you.
sitetest
**My ex-wife never responded to the Tribunal's questionaire.**
They will take this into consideration.
Hang in there.
**In this same letter, I read they never got a response from Doctor X nor the hospital I was treated in. No big surprise there since in this letter the Monsignor had the Doctor's name wrong and the name of the hospital wrong as well.**
Follow through on these omissions/errors by these parties.
any friends, her relatives that could help you out on the courtship data?
So here's what I recommend:
Get pro-active on the Doctor.
(A.)Report the errors to the Tribunal and show them the correct information that you originally gave them. Do this by attached copy of your original highlighted.(B.)Contact the Doctor's office. (1)Get a copy of your file. You have that right. (2)Write a letter to the doctor's office --send snail mail and fax -- explaining that you need him/her to verify this information. (3)Call the doctor's secretary and office manager and explain what you need. There is sometimes a fee for processing a copy of your file, but it is worth paying it to have it on hand during your annulment process.
Okay, now take a deep breath and know you are not alone. sinkspur and I who famously do not agree, do agree that you are getting a rough ride and we want to help however we can. We both want to celebrate on the day you make your profession of faith and enter the Church.
As to witnesses, you may want to freepmail me privately. I have some ideas and questions. You may not think anyone can address the issues -- but you may be surprised what friends actually know and observe.
All in all. God bless you and Mary keep you. Don't let a process grind you down. God at the very same time wishes to lift you up through laity on this forum to show you as you come into the Church that the Church is not simply a hierarchy, but all of the laity share in the threefold mission of Christ as priest, prophet, and king. For my part, I will help you as I can constructively and will continue to pray for you and your wife.
Be sure to pray for the woman with whom you attempted marriage. Pray for her fervently. God will receive the sacrifice of those prayers and make something very good from them of benefit to you all.
Sadly, no. I burned those bridges thru the course of my behavior during those days. The only *friends* who knew us during our short courtship/dating time were friends of hers and they aren't going to assist in any fashion. They all, and in some cases with good reason, hate my guts.
**Be sure to pray for the woman with whom you attempted marriage. Pray for her fervently. God will receive the sacrifice of those prayers and make something very good from them of benefit to you all.**
Good advice!
Agreed. But you can corroborate that information in other ways. Others can provide testimony to the tribunal about the timeframe of your courtship, your marriage etc.
Also, it is important to let the Tribunal know that there are witnesses and others who will not cooperate because of their disapproval of your entry into the Catholic Church. If there is in fact hatred of the Catholic Church involved, that too should be noted but in the most restrained way possible.
As far as the witnesses go, I'm sorry I don't have any good ideas. If what they need is proof you were a bad husband, maybe your ex in-laws would be happy to document it for you? Or if the source of your being a bad husband was other women, maybe you could dig up two of them? Sorry I don't have more to offer.
As always, you come through with such excellent advice and great insight. Bless you, Siobhan and your entire family!
Only relatives who could respond to our courtship are her parents and that's not going to happen.
Dear Stickman,
See, I pray for you, and Siobhan arrives on the scene!
LOL.
Seriously, Siobhan has a lot of great ideas and potential help in her post.
sitetest
Great advice. I've already called the facility to discover my former doctor is still on staff there. My priest (thank God for bringing me to this man) and I are going to call and request info from them Tuesday after morning Mass.
I have let the Tribunal know in answers in my questionaire there are people who could testify but who are vehemently anti-Catholic and do NOT want me to be brought into the Church.
I've also offered to come in and submit to a lie-detector test, but never have gotten a response from the tribunal.
I'm here if you need me. I mean it!
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