Opening Our Hearts to Ephesians 5

CatholicExchange.com ^ | 04-17-06 | Jim Curley

[Salvation]

For your prayerful consideration and discussion.

Please, no wife or husband bashing.

[Salvation]

**For the man (and I can speak to this more readily), we find the tables have been turned. Instead of Ephesians 5 being an excuse for us to lord it over our families, we find it is an obligation of service.**

This is a wonderful interpretation of this Scripture.

[Salvation]

Catholic Discussion Ping!

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[Abigail Adams]

Ephesians 6:5 says "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

Does that mean that Paul is endorsing slavery?

[Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin]

"In fact, it is the husband who should pale at and fear the words of Ephesians."

Yes. And like many passages in the Bible, it is taken out-of-context and applied however it is most selfishly advantageous for the user. The end result, is to avoid having to confront one's own sin...

[Knitting A Conundrum]

When we read Paul telling people how to behave, it is always a call for people to act in the most loving way possible to each other.

Historically, people have used the verses to beat up on the underlings and support the power base of those who want to act the way that they want. But it doesn't mean that the teaching is bad as much as it means that the people who misuse it, misuse it.

We are told, "By your fruits you shall know them."

Perhaps God knew a thing or two about human psychology, need, and what it took to keep men following Christ. Perhaps we should become fruit inspectors.

Where there is bad fruit, there will be people who choose their way over God's way.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

It's should be taken all of it in context.
The feminist hate it because it teaches that the wife is under her husband's God ordained leadership and authority, however, God holds the husband to a greater responsibility, in Ehp 5:25 God calls the HUSBAND to love their wives as Christ loved the church, even giving himself for it ( as in , husbands should love their wives even to the point were he would have to give up his life ( if it ever came to that ) for her.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

" Does that mean that Paul is endorsing slavery? "

Nope.

I do not believe that he or Christianity endorsed slavery, however, that was the times and age that he was living in, and even today we still have slavery in parts of the world.
I think Paul was trying to tell the slaves not to make matters worse and try to make a bad situation work out for the good.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

When you think about what Christ was willing to do, and what he went through during the Passion, you realize that's a pretty high level committment...

[Prophet in the wilderness]

And that is the point that Paul was trying to get acrossed to the husbands in EHP 5 : 25

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I have lots of interesting church stories about this passage. LOL! Husbands tend to love it and wives hate it. Not all ministers avoid it, at least not in the SBC. Some are even obsessed with it. LOL! In my experience, the wives theory was that the pastor was preaching mainly to his own wife. LOL! Now, that wasn't my theory, but it was the theory of others. I was a kid at the time and had no stake in the issue.

I am not really bothered about women's roles because in my opinion, it's really a desire for power and self-glory to demand leadership in the home or church anyway. Someone has to give or there can be no leadership at all. While a woman may be smarter and wiser than a man sometimes, she is emotionally more fit for her God-given role. To be mad about that obvious fact is to elevate self over God. So it doesn't bother me. I'll be honest, though, I'm not great at being submissive. Fortunately my husband wants my advice a lot so things work fine for us. I don't know what a Christian woman is to do if her husband is very power crazy. Hopefully they attend a church where the pastor can set the man straight.

I always like to keep in mind that women raise the boys to be men. They become the men we shape them to be. So our job is VERY important.

[AnalogReigns]

Good stuff! Except for his reference to the Pope, it could have been preached in any evangelical Protestant church.

Good to see Catholics getting into the bible! Especially on this critical issue.

God bless you all.

[Abigail Adams]

"I do not believe that he or Christianity endorsed slavery, however, that was the times and age that he was living in, and even today we still have slavery in parts of the world. I think Paul was trying to tell the slaves not to make matters worse and try to make a bad situation work out for the good."

Because Paul's comments on slavery are part of his overall instructions in this part of his letter, which includes the instructions about wives and husbands, shouldn't all of the instructions be interpreted in the same way? Either as commands to be followed for all time and eternity, or as commands that fit the time and culture he lived in. We can't say that wives must submit to their husbands today, just as they did back in Paul's day, without also saying that slaves should be obedient to their masters today. Just my .02 on the matter.

[Mr. Jeeves]

You're right. Paul's writings were aimed at the near-Islamic Middle Eastern tribal cultures of the day, and no doubt he was just advising women to "make the best of a bad situation", much as some Muslim Imams do today.

It's funny and rather sad to watch modern commentators like the author of the article try to retrofit such ancient "woman=bad=dirty=unclean" tribal taboos to work in the modern world.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

As the husband as the head of the household is in now way for the wife to be a slave.
God is the one who ordained for the husband to be the head authority and leader in the household, and is no way to diminish the part that the woman has in both " MAN & WOMAN in CHRIST ".
but, as a family unit, God placed the husband to be the head authority and leader, and placed much responsibility on the husband.
God placed both parents to be the authority over the children.
In God's universe, there is order, and without order ( as we see today in one parent households, and society ) we have chaos, and disorder, with much thanks to the feminist.

[Abigail Adams]

I didn't say that the wife is to be a slave. I'm saying that the instructions Paul is giving in Ephesians 5 and 6 are to husbands and wives, children and parents, and slaves and masters. And since they are all part of the same passage in the same letter, all the instructions should be treated the same. Either as timeless truths to be followed for all time, or as culturally relative instructions for a particular people of a particular time and culture.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Ladies, even though some women might disagree with some of things in the Bible's teaching about husbands and wives, it's was not up until Christianity came to this world that the Bible's teaching that woman finally were treated as humans and not 2 nd class citizens.
The Bible teaches us that men SHOULD love and respect the creation that God created in woman ( look at all the other religions compared to Christianity ).
Why do most feminist hate Christianity, but, embrace the other religions that make woman 2 nd class citizens and oppress women ? it's not because woman's rights or the treatment of woman, it's because of something else.
As I said here on FR many times, Feminism and Homosexuality is a demonic spirit, and when the anti Christ comes, the feminist and the homosexuals will be at the for front of oppression and persecution of Christians and ushering in the anti Christ.
Look at how the Liberal theologians are trying to rewrite Christian history and the Holy scriptures ?
Look at how the homosexuals are saying what the Bible says about homosexuality is not what it really says.
What we are seeing today is the watering down the Holy Bible, and rewriting of God's word.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

I think what Paul is teaching is God's ordained order, and authority, and Governing authority.
I do not believe that Paul was trying to make the same case with husbands and wives as the case with slaves.
Paul was basically laying down a fundamental principle of authoritative order in the family and society.
We ( you and I ) are under the authority of our local, state, and federal government, and the Bible teaches us that those governmental authorities are under God's authority and direction regardless if they are Godly or not.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

We can debate this and disagree, however, yes, that was a different time and culture, but ? do you honestly think that God would want the family unit, or structure to be different than what has lasted for thousands of years, and works if it is a Godly , loving family ?
Do you honestly think God wants wives to be rebellious towards him and their husbands ? do you honestly think God wants children to rebel towards their parents ( even though it's in the human nature to rebel against God and authority ).
The thing that caused Satan to fall is that he wanted to be as GOD or in the same seat or authority as God, and we know what happened to Satan.
That's the same kind of spirit that is in the feminist.

[wolfcreek]

Another dodgy Catholic thing. Man, ya'll need to get a grip on your religion.