"Where Were You, God?"

HiTech RedNeck | 5/19/2013 | HiTech RedNeck

[HiTech RedNeck]

Lord I believe; please help my unbelief.
I have so closely felt You there in hours of joy or grief.
But now where is Your light? It seems stolen by a thief.
Lord I believe; please help my unbelief.

Lord I have loved You so in months and years gone by.
Yet my spirit has grown dull; I can hardly even sigh.
What is happening to my soul? Would You show the reason why?
Lord I have loved You so in months and years gone by.

Lord, Your holy word says that You never fade or change.
You have said these worldwide sufferings should not be held as strange.
You have promised your saving presence for as long as life remains.
Lord, Your holy word says that You never fade or change.

Lord, I give myself to You again this trying hour.
I know you are preparing me to receive Your wondrous power.
No more trace of evil, though the enemy tries to scour.
Lord, I give myself to You again this trying hour.

Lord, I weep for joy again at the long awaited sight
Of your face that smiles upon my soul; once more I see the Light.
Visions dear of angels pure and saints in heaven bright;
Lord, I weep for joy again at the long awaited sight.

(C) 2013 HiTech RedNeck

[PieterCasparzen]

That makes sense, since “all scripture is useful for... instruction.” If the saga of the Israelites meant nothing to modern Christians then this would not be true. Now some segments of Christendom (and I count myself among them) hold with a view that actually says the literal Jews are coming back into the limelight. Some call it dispensationalism. I don’t necessarily buy into everything that proponents of that view have propounded, but it answers a lot of questions including the question of how could God be woofing to those Israelites and only meaning figurative, spiritualized-out promises and not further literal ones like the literal promises they knew for thousands of years?

Of course what used to called (by folks knowledgeable about the Bible back in the day) the "whole counsel of God" must be - as always - kept in mind; with that said, Romans 11 addresses the topic of Jews' belief in Christ and the relationship all Christians have with them in this regard. I very, very much recommend starting at Romans 10 to get some context.

Matthew Henry's commentary on the chapters is helpful; it's available on biblegateway.com, while more succint notes are in the Reformation Study Bible notes on that same website. Just click on the 'Show resources' link at the top right of the text.

I very, very much recommend studying those chapters on this subject, as part of a general pursuit of the whole of Scripture, as they set forth a great deal of doctrine quite clearly.

Notes to "unbelievers" coming across this:

Having been discussed within the Church for many years prior to the closing of the Canon, the doctrine revealed within Paul's Epistle to the Romans carries great weight as testimony of God's Word. This is due to its standing the test of discussion and debate at a time when the older generation within the Church was alive at the time of Christ. Accordingly, they would be very knowledgable of the Old Testament, since per the custom of the day there was a great deal of memorization and study of it, as well they would be very aware of Jesus' words and deeds during his earthly ministry. The text of Romans agreement with the understanding of Old Testament and Jesus' teachings that the early Church members and elders had is evidenced by the inclusion of Romans in the Canon.

Also, the Apostle Paul was, prior to his conversion, a Jew who was part of the hierarchy that persecuted Christians. His story is wonderful. If you can't get up the gumption to read the Bible, I'd recommend the 1981 moved "Peter and Paul" that was posted here today, I think, by ReformationFan, has Anthony Hopkins in it as Paul.

[HiTech RedNeck]

It’s kind of like talking about whether the light switch can generate a current through it. No it can’t. But it can permit the current to flow.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I do not wish to get into these technicalities.

[GBA]

Pray for me all you want. Reading these just makes me more alienated.

If you'd be interested, I'd be happy to give you any or all of these books (easy to do if you have a Kindle) I've found helpful:

My Descent Into Death: A Second Chance at Life
(Read the forward by Anne Rice to this book!)

Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back

Heaven is Real But So is Hell: An Eyewitness Account of What is to Come by Vassula Ryden.

I found each of these books helpful and would be happy to share them with you. Also, I haven't read this one yet, but it is likely the most transformational of them all:

True Life in God

It's Vassula Ryden's conversation with God and His mission for her.

[A_perfect_lady]

Ah yes, he's "watching the person show proof"..."if the sincerity is there." You have to prove your love and belief and sincerity. If you aren't feeling the joy, you clearly haven't proven it yet. That's your God of Unconditional Love in action, dangling his gifts over your head while you jump and jump and jump.

Only a human would come up with this kind of God. But of course, only a God with this sort of personality could be responsible for this world we live in. That, or there is no one up there, and like an astrologist, you create patterns around the stars and then look for proof to support them.

[HiTech RedNeck]

It’s kind of like talking about whether the light switch can generate a current through it. No it can’t. But it can permit the current to flow.

Really, modern electrical theory is a pretty good explanation of the principle, though if pipes and valves had existed in olden days they would have sufficed too. The presence of the spirit at the heart is like electric potential i.e. voltage. The travel through which is saving faith is like electric current. I think it’s awesome how new analogies arise with new technologies, which of course themselves are revealed to mankind by God... Turn Your Radio On anyone? Eph. 6 would probably have included a walkie talkie illustration for praying if it had existed in Paul’s day.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Only a God could come up with you, but a devil could pervert you.

The claim is explicit: God made people in His spiritual image. There is no “frabozz” motive of God that is foreign to humans and would only be sensible to purple Martians.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I think your attempts led you into an abyss because you inadvertently idolized the explanations rather than using them as analogies that were useful as far as they could go but never were the real thing. I got the real thing. The Spirit approached my heart and illustrated what He was about by giving me joy focused on Him. I assented; it was all the easier since it was what I had hoped and prayed for and yet I didn’t know details of what it would be like till it happened. The spiritual current is now flowing. What, me turn the switch off now? Are you crazy?!?

Call me Pelagian or semi Pelagian or green Martianian or whatever you want. I don’t care.

[Salvation]

Are you familiar with the Apostles Creed?

With the Nicene Creed?

They answer the question asked with the words, “I believe.”

[Springfield Reformer]

It’s kind of like talking about whether the light switch can generate a current through it. No it can’t. But it can permit the current to flow

Only if an external force acts on it to permit the flow of current, which again leaves unresolved exactly what it is man can do in a fallen, spiritually dead condition. Which illustrates nicely the reason why we must rely on Scripture and not imaginative illustrations from physical nature. We are not, at our essence, material beings, and materialistic explanations of spiritual reality are doomed to failure, apart from those sanctioned by Scriptural revelation, for reasons you have already cited concerning God's capacity for accurate self-revelation.

[Craftmore]

Im not scoffing,Im pointing out truths that you dont like to look at.Sadly there are inconsistancies in the Bible.And churchs have changed the rules many times to suit thier own desires to change with the times.
In my own lifetime ive seen churchs Go from forbidding even married couples to sit together to allowing women preachers.Many churchs in my neck of the woods have 2 doors on the front.Men entered from one door,women the other,and each sat on opposite sides of the church,even if they were married.Women were forbidden to speak or even teach sunday school.Now those same churchs,people sit wherever they wish and women preach the word.
Even Saint Peter was told by God to change the way he taught and tried to save sinners.So yes,God changes,and the church changes.

[HiTech RedNeck]

And so you can delve into labyrinths if you want. Some capability of accepting or denying spiritual flow exists in humans. You might as well ask why humans can do anything spiritual at all, even sin?

At any case, the original sin was not just a toggle operation but resulted in God removing the voltage... for a time. Of course that’s dead. The switch can flip in vain. Now God brings the voltage back. Will we say yes or no to enabling the path that God provided for it to flow. I say we can say yes or no, but to me a yes was virtually obvious. Pressing death/life analogies too far... with that same old demon you rail at, “human reason”... pushes them outside of their area of usefulness.

[HiTech RedNeck]

You are caviling at the elementary school level.

[A_perfect_lady]

Your God sounds like Obama: in charge of everything, responsible for nothing.

[HiTech RedNeck]

If you want responsibility, you got it Lady...

[HiTech RedNeck]

Ultimately I don’t lean on any explanation, however. The scriptures are true to the extent they go, and attempting to extend them via our limited understanding is fraught with risk. We might or might not get a right answer. Any explanation is at best a crude, crude analogy whose actual implementation is in a domain that only God can see the gnatty details of. We have paradoxes. We do not have self contradictions. I’m saved, I thank the Lord for bringing me the opportunity (whether or not He forced it on me, and it sure did not feel forced, only very very very inviting). Let us get on with glorifying the Lord forever, together.

[daniel1212]

I was baptized... about a month after I was born. First Communion... jeez, can’t remember what year it was. Confirmation as a Roman Catholic... age 13. Is there anything more along those lines I need to do? Pray for me all you want. Reading these just makes me more alienated.

I also was baptized, did my First Communion, Confirmation, was raised in a devout household by parent with conscience, weekly and more attending services, and believed in God intellectually, but i had no spiritual life. I "said my prayers" but God was very external. Church is the family coming together but the church of the Bible preached Jesus, not advertizing themselves or substituting rote professions and rituals for relationship.

But years after, when i realized how empty i was, and that my sins separated me from God and that i needed to really repent, and did so sincerely and tearfully, and came to trust in Christ to saved me on His expense and merit, did i really have heart and life changes that extended beyond what i could change by God's grace, so that even nature was new to this rural young man.

Was i perfect, and would never fall away to some degree, or no longer seek greater holiness, no, but a fundamental and radical change took place, resulting in my wanted to serve King Jesus, whom i see working daily as we seek Him.

Read some of the Bible, like the gospel of Luke (the physician) Think about your sins of omission and commission, and be honest and with God, and decide you want Christ over your way, giving Him your sins and life, trusting and asking Him to save you who will never leave those who follow Him.

You can watch some well done video testimonies of souls who found Christ here if you want. and keep in touch.

[HiTech RedNeck]

You are pointing up things that are largely irrelevant. Confess it frankly, you won’t accept the idea of a God that asks different people to express faith in different outward manners at different times. And that, just “because.” You’ve already dug in your heels and won’t undig them. You’re basically hung up on “list of works” righteousness rather than works displaying faith and being a means of exercising faith.

[PieterCasparzen]

In my own lifetime ive seen churchs Go from forbidding even married couples to sit together to allowing women preachers.Many churchs in my neck of the woods have 2 doors on the front.Men entered from one door,women the other,and each sat on opposite sides of the church,even if they were married.Women were forbidden to speak or even teach sunday school.Now those same churchs,people sit wherever they wish and women preach the word.

The question is always "what does the Bible say", i.e., what does it REALLY say ?

It tells us who should be teaching elders - it tells us what to look for in a teaching elder. It's all laid out in the Bible. But we have to a) read it and b) follow it.

Now, if I was teaching people computer programming and they kept coming up with all kinds of mind games about why I was wrong, I'd simply stop teaching them, because they want to play games not learn.

Look up "be still before the Lord". This has to do with, basically, one has to stop the yappy-yap, actually listen and actually try to learn.

Even Saint Peter was told by God to change the way he taught and tried to save sinners.So yes,God changes,and the church changes.

God revealed himself to the Apostles - not all at once, but progressively over time. God goes one step at a time, just what we need, when we need it, no more, no less. And if you want to be very technical and take a few years to research, or perhaps a lifetime, you'll find that what God reveals in Scripture is consistent from beginning to end. Just know that a man can never understand the entire Bible completely.

God created heaven and earth - all of this, all of us. Everything. He then has set everything in motion.

We are part of his creation, created in his image, but still he created us.

There are very small inconsistencies in the Bible if you want to be "technical". But if you want to be that "technical", it's time to seriously study the Bible so as to be discussing it intelligently.

What one finds out eventually is that everything in the Bible has a purpose; it is God revealing himself to us.