How The Gospel Came To Africa...Acts 8 pt 6

http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/philip-and-the-ethiopian-acts-8/ ^ | 10-23-10 | Bill Randles

[Responsibility2nd]

Thanks for posting this wonderful story of salvation.

Isn’t it interesting how some will denounce the message of baptism as essential unto salvation when clearly Phillip preached that is is.

[Errant]

baptism as essential unto salvation when clearly Phillip preached that is.

Also in the book of Acts 2:21: And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[Responsibility2nd]

Very true. The obvious conclusion is that no one can cherry pick one or two verses from the Bible and make the claim that this (praying the believers prayer - calling on the name of the lord - accepting Christ into your heart - whatever) ALONE is the way to be saved.

Only if and when one hears, believes, repents, confesses and is baptized; will one then be saved.

[Errant]

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

[Responsibility2nd]

Ahh, the theif on the cross story. It amazes me how many people mistakenly use this example to claim salvation can be obtained without baptism

Here is a very good outline that explains why the theif was saved without baptism.

http://executableoutlines.com/ba/ba_05.htm

[Errant]

It amazes me how many people mistakenly use this example to claim salvation can be obtained without baptism

Probably because it serves as a perfect example that baptism it isn't absolutely necessary, regardless of extraordinary efforts to explain it away.

Believe what you will. ;)

Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

[Responsibility2nd]

You’re are cherry-picking. Let me explain. For some un-Biblical reason many people will pick out verses to live by and completey ignore other scriptures that they don’t like.

The same holds true with salvation. Are you saying that living by Romans 10:10 alone is all that is necessary to be saved? I don’t see any indication here in this verse alone that repentance is required, so can I be save without repenting of my sins?

[Errant]

I’ve reference two scriptures, out of many, that say ALL who CALL upon the Lord shall be saved. Please show me one that says you will be cast into the lake of fire if you are not ceremonially baptized in water. Granted it is something that should be performed if at all possible. Sometimes it is something that isn’t possible due to circumstances beyond control, like in the case of the one hanging on the cross with Messiah.

[pastorbillrandles]

Amen, Paul himself told us that “Christ didn’t send me,(him) to baptize”, but to preach the gospel, for it is the gospel which saves...

[Responsibility2nd]

Unbelievable. Have you never heard of the Great Commission? Read that and then tell me Jesus did not command baptism.

[Responsibility2nd]

I’m not denying that 1 may be saved by calling on the name of the Lord. But you must admit there is more to it than that. The thief didn’t call upon the name of the Lord, right? So please don’t ignore the many scriptures that command repenting confessing, believing and baptism.

[smvoice]

"There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in ONE HOPE of your calling. ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Eph. 4:4-6).

For BY ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body..."(1 Cor. 12:13).

It is the Holy Spirit, in this dispensation of grace we are living in, that baptizes us into Christ; not baptism by water. It is a spiritual baptism, not a wet one. It's a shame so many cannot see this.

[Responsibility2nd]

By the way,you didn’t answer my question. Can you be saved without repenting? And do you know why the the thief wasn’t baptized? For the same reason Abraham, Moses or the prophets weren’t baptized. Christ had not died, had not been buried, and had not risen again when they all died.

But now we must die to our sins and be buried in baptism and be raised in newness of life for the forgiveness of our sins. Cherry picking one or two passages alone is unscriptual.

[Responsibility2nd]

Really? Look again at this thread centering on Acts chapter 8. About the conversion of the Ethiopian. Clearly Philip was preaching the gospel which evidently included baptism in water.

To deny that a physical baptism is essential unto salvation is just false doctrine.

[smvoice]

...which is exactly what the Holy Spirit does the moment we are saved. "For by ONE SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY..."(1 Cor. 12:13). It is the Holy Spirit that places us (baptizes us) into Christ the very moment we trust in the finished work of Christ.

And how do we KNOW it's a SPIRITUAL BAPTISM and NOT a WATER BAPTISM?

"For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the GOdhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are CIRCUMCISED with the circumcision MADE WITHOUT HANDS, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: BURIED with him in BAPTISM, wherein also ye are RISEN with him through the FAITH OF THE OPERATION OF GOD, who hath raised him from the dead." (Col.2:9-14). This is ALL about the Holy Spirit's work. It is ALL SPIRITUAL. NOT physical. The baptism is no more physical than the circumcision is.

[smvoice]

Really? Yes, Acts chapter 8 says what you say. It's part of the great commission of Mark 16. And what John the Baptist, Christ, and Peter and the 11 all preached. To Israel. It was the Kingdom Gospel. It was the Law.

We are not under the law, we are under grace. We are given the Gospel of the grace of God now. Centered on the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. TOday there is ONE BAPTISM. Which has nothing to do with water. And everything to do with the work of the HOLY SPIRIT baptizing us into the Body of Christ. It's spiritual. Not physical. You can read all about it in Romans through Philemon, and starting in Acts chapter 9. Imagine that! You were just ONE CHAPTER away from knowledge of the dispensation of the grace of God.

[Errant]

John the Baptist said, as recorded in Luke 3:16, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

While certainly a very worthy ceremony to adhere to, and one I most strongly encourage, it's obviously not an absolute necessity.

For the same reason Abraham, Moses or the prophets weren’t baptized. Christ had not died, had not been buried, and had not risen again when they all died.

Note that John was baptizing before the crucifixion.

Cherry picking one or two passages alone is unscriptual.

The scriptures I reference stand alone in there meaning (i.e., no context needed).

By the way, you didn’t answer my question. Can you be saved without repenting?

As the scriptures say many times and in many books, Call upon the Lord; profess your faith in Yeshua Messiah; ask forgiveness of your sins; is all that is necessary to be called up at his second coming. Remain in Messiah lest ye join the queue for judgment of your works at the end. :-)

[Responsibility2nd]

You yourself referenced upthread the passage that there is One Baptism. So how come now you argue there is a water baptism and a spirit baptism?

Here are some other references to consider when considering that baptism is essential.

“But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward
man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of
regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,”

“whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our
Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become
heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” - Tit 3:4-7

And how does the Spirit do this?

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be
baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

“For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who
are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” - Ac 2:38-39

More here....

http://executableoutlines.com/hs/hs_06.htm

[Responsibility2nd]

How about a reference that SUPPORTS your argument.

Spirit Baptism Saves Us, Not Water Baptism!

INTRODUCTION

1. Another objection to the necessity of baptism involves making a
distinction between baptism in the Spirit and baptism in water;
this view proclaims...
a. “The baptism which saves is a baptism in the Spirit at the point
of faith”
b. “Passages like Ro 6:3-7, Ga 3:27, etc., refer to Spirit baptism,
not water baptism”

2. Those upholding this view point out...
a. There are many different types of baptisms in the Bible
b. We should not assume that water baptism is always the subject
under consideration

3. As expressed by one proponent of this view...
a. “There is a way to distinguish between water baptism and Spirit
Baptism in those scriptures which do not specifically tell which
type is being discussed.”
b. “That way is this: if the passage is talking about being placed
into Christ, then it is talking about Spirit Baptism, not Water
Baptism, for Spirit Baptism is how we are placed into Christ.”
c. “...in Romans 6, for example, it is obvious that the context is
being placed into Christ and the passage dwells on the believer’s
identification with Christ, with His death, and with His
resurrection. In this passage, the believer is not baptized into
WATER, but into the death of Christ.” - Baptism and Salvation,
Charles T. Buntin
— Of course, this argument presumes the very point to be proven

[There are several problems that I have with this effort to explain
away the necessity of baptism in water for the remission of sins. To
begin with, the Bible teaches...]

I. THERE IS ONE BAPTISM

A. THE BIBLE DOES DESCRIBE MANY BAPTISMS...
1. At the very least there are six...
a. The baptism of Moses (Israel) - 1Co 10:1-2
b. The baptism of John, a baptism in water - Mk 1:4-5
c. The baptism of the Holy Spirit - Mt 3:11; Lk 3:16; Ac 1:5;
2:1-4; 10:44,45; 11:15-16
f. The baptism of fire (judgment) - Mt 3:11; Lk 3:16,17
d. The baptism of suffering (persecution) - Mt 20:20-33; Lk
12:50
e. The baptism of the Great Commission, which was a baptism in
water - Mt 28:19; Mk 16:15-16; Ac 2:38; 8:12-13,35-38;
10:47-48; 22:16
2. Some include two more...
a. The baptism of Noah, metaphorically speaking, which
involved water - 1Pe 3:20
b. The baptism of Jesus, which involved water and the Spirit
- Mt 3:16-17

B. THERE IS NOW JUST ONE BAPTISM...
1. In describing the unity of the Spirit...
a. Paul proclaims there is one baptism - Ep 4:3-7
b. Just as there is only one Lord, one faith, one hope, etc.
2. To which of the six (or eight) baptisms was Paul referring?
a. I believe we can safely rule out all but two
b. The issue boils down to this: Is the one baptism of
Ep 4:5...
1) The baptism of the Holy Spirit?
2) The baptism of the Great Commission?
— Or might there actually be a connection between these
two, with the end result there being one baptism with
two elements: water and the Spirit?

[Whichever, we cannot have two or more baptisms; there is only one
baptism! Now let me explain why regarding the one baptism...]

II. IT IS THE BAPTISM OF THE GREAT COMMISSION

more.....

http://executableoutlines.com/ba/ba_09.htm