Posted on 11/28/2014 9:44:39 PM PST by Steelfish
The Early Church Fathers
The Early Church Fathers were the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, etc. In short they were the Christian leaders who took charge of the Church following the death of the 12 apostles.
They were not only taught by the 12 apostles, they were also first-hand witnesses to the creation of the Church worldwide. Most, if not all, were martyred by being crucified, beheaded, fed to the lions at the Roman Coliseum, boiled in oil, or skinned alive. They were the ones empowered by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13 and 1 John 4:6), and who personally handed on the oral teaching of Jesus Christ, before the New Testament canon was created by the Catholic Church in the late 4th century, at the councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage.
One of the great early ones, St. Clement, is actually mentioned in the bible in Philippians 4:3. None of these early Church Fathers just stood up and started preaching on his own. They followed the Biblical model in Acts of “being sent” (Romans 10:15). Who sent them? Jesus sent the 12 apostles (“as the Father sent me, so I send you”). The 12 apostles then laid hands on others and sent them (Acts 6:6).
This apostolic tradition has been followed for 2000 years by the Catholic Church, who continuously lays hands on new disciples in every generation since Jesus walked the earth, and then sends them to the four corners of the earth to preach the good news of Jesus Christ, to forgive sins in His Name, and to bring Jesus in the Eucharist to us all. We, the members of the 21rst Century, owe these early Church Fathers a lot of gratitude, because they died horrible deaths in order to preserve and to hand on the Word of God to us today.
A lot of Protestants ignore these early Christian leaders, preferring instead to believe that the history of Christianity began with Jesus and the 12 apostles, and then somehow skipped over 15 centuries to Martin Luther. That would be like saying that the history of the United States began with George Washington in 1776, and then skipped over to Franklin Roosevelt in 1932. For some reason, a lot of Protestants will refuse to read any of the writings of the early Church Fathers, proudly proclaiming to everyone that “Those writings are not in my Bible!”
But they will read the writings of Martin Luther, Billy Graham, and Max Lucado, even though those aren’t in the Bible either! They will even read and believe the heretical "Left Behind" books of LaHeye and Jenkins (there is no "secret" rapture of believers mentioned anywhere in the bible. When it happens, according to the bible, there will be trumpet blasts, and every eye will see Jesus). The writings of the early Church Fathers elucidate what is taught in the Bible, so that it’s no mystery whether or not the Eucharist is the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, whether or not Mary is the new Eve, or whether or not there is a purgatory.
After all, the early Church Fathers were taught by the 12 apostles, handed on the faith to the next generation, and were then martyred for their actions! Why someone would trust more in the writings of people coming along 15 centuries later over their writings is very strange indeed.
Some of the greatest early Church Fathers are mentioned below. To read about them, just click on their name.
St. Polycarp
St. Iraneaus
St. Justin Martyr
St. Ambrose
St. Ignatius of Antioch
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
St. Athanasius
St. Clement of Rome
St. Augustine
St. Jerome
To read about what they thought about the following issues, click on each one of the topics below.
Purgatory
Homosexuality
Contraception
Old Testament Canon
Good Works
The Catholic Church
The Pope
The Eucharist
Apostolic Succession and Tradition
The Blessed Virgin Mary
The Mass
Divorce
Against Heresy
Unity of the Church
Infant Baptism
Degrees of Sin
Abortion
Some great writings of these early Church Fathers are below:
The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Phillipians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
The Martyrdom of Ignatius
The First Apology of Justin Martyr
Iranaeus Against Heresies
Confessions of St. Augustine
A Complete Index of the Early Church Fathers' Writings
Jimmy Akin's New Blog on the Early Church Fathers
So don't get trapped in the Protestant philosophy that actually says that if it isn't in the Bible, then it can't possibly be true. If that were truly the case, then none of Martin Luther's writings can be seen as true, because they aren't in the Bible either! Take the time to read what our Catholic martyred ancestors had to say. After all, we are all united through time and space in the Eucharist. St. John says in his gospel that if we eat the body of Christ and drink His blood, then Christ abides in us, and we in Him! And because we are all united in Christ, we are all united with each other.
And once non-Catholic Christians start to read these writings of the early Church Fathers, they will soon discover that there were NO Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Mormons, Episcopaleans, etc., anywhere in the Early Church. Those traditions of men were all started centuries later, based on what people thought Jesus' Church was all about, rather than on what it actually was.
What is mean is “Mixed truths”
They often do not agree with each other ..Rome picks and chooses ...BTW they are not INFALLIBLE
There is no random picking and choosing. That’s what those who are completely untethered from Petrine authority do and why just look around and see the mudslide of interpretations from David Koresh, Jim Jones, Joel Osteen, and every other sect and sub-sect of Lutheranism, Presbyterians, and Evangelical faiths to the point that many of these mainline denominations now admit lesbian and homosexual married parters to be their pastors and tell their congregatnts that all this is scripturally kosher. The Catholic Credo and Catholic doctrine come from the the Church acting ex cathedra. Perhaps you show go look up the definition and meaning of Ex Cathedra.
It was used, the term "brothers" to mean COUSINS of Jesus or at best, step-brothers if, and this would be a big "if", Joseph was married before and was a widower.The word Paul uses there means James was considered the Lord's biological brother. Greek is the original language of the New Testament books, and it uses a very precise Greek word for brother here -- adelphos. Adelphos means, literally, "from the same womb." There is a word for cousin in the Greek and it is anepsios. It is used in New Testament in Colossians 4:10 and translated correctly there as cousin.
While Jesus probably spoke Aramaic, that is of no consequence to this matter, since the original language of the New Testament books is Koine Greek. Also, there are times in 1st-2nd century Greek literature that adelphos can mean something more general like "mutual bond", "associates", or "countrymen", but that is always clearly borne out in the passage context. There is no context where this might be suggested in the entire New Testament.
There is also very strong extra-biblical references in Josephus' Antiquities that refers to James as the brother of Jesus: "These things happened to the Jews in requital for James the Righteous, who was a brother of Jesus, known as Christ."
You do realize these guys were all over the board on these issues. The ECFs were not in 100% agreement.
Guess they must have been practicing what you claim to be against. Their lack of consistency kills your dubious claim that they were all taught by the apostles thus rendering the catholic claim to "apostolic" succession null and void.
My question to you is have you read these or are you just parroting catholic talking points??
Ravenwolf: Why do you say no Baptists? any one can see that the apostles and even Jesus were Baptists. Didn`t you see where Jesus took a whip to those money exchangers?
Guess the catholics missed John the Baptist!! LOL!
I'm not a bit surprised catholicism redefines words to mean something different than how they are used in the Bible.
Ya'll do it with Scripture all the time, so why not with words.
uhhh....the dude from Sweden you were trumpeting as a conversion from being a protestant to being a catholic was ordained in the church of Sweden....they believed in homosexuality. The Church of Sweden is commonly known for its liberal position in theological issues, particularly the question of homosexuality. When Bishop Eva Brunne was consecrated as Bishop of Stockholm in 2009 she became the first openly lesbian bishop in the world.
watcha bet he hasn't changed his ideas on the topic?
Uh...no it doesn't. John is noting Jesus did many other things. Of that no one would question. What it doesn't allow for are false teachings to be introduced to the church such as the catholic positions on Mary, indulgences, etc.
However, the Bible has recorded all that we need to know about how to have eternal life.
your church, your problem. just keep sweeping it under the rug though.
Pope Linus (the second Pope) is the Linus mentioned by St. Paul in his 2 Timothy 4:21.
After the Holy Apostles (Peter and Paul) had founded and set the Church in order (in Rome) they gave over the exercise of the episcopal office to Linus. The same Linus is mentioned by St. Paul in his Epistle to Timothy. His successor was Anacletus.
Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html#ixzz3KhTo8FT3
boy, the caths sure did take a wrong road somewhere.
Man, this level of hypocrisy would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Our best window into the overall financial picture of American Catholicism comes from a 2012 investigation by the Economist, which offered a rough-and-ready estimate of $170 billion in annual spending, of which almost $150 billion is associated with church-affiliated hospitals and institutions of higher education. The operating budget for ordinary parishes, at around $11 billion a year, is a relatively small share, and Catholic Charities is a smaller share still. http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/03/catholic_church_and_pope_francis_religious_institutions_are_exempted_from.html
And that's just in America.
No one really knows how much money the Vatican controls as they will not say. That's one of the hallmarks of a cult....keep the money secret.
The church I attend has a published budget for all the members to see. Nothing to hide.
I call upon the catholic church to give a full disclosure of its finances.
Guess the catholics missed John the Baptist!! LOL!
What denomination is it ? What is the compensation package for the paid staff ?
The moment you begin with “every a cursory reading,” no need to read further. All the great early Church fathers and theologians, and the renowned constellation of theologians over a 2000 year period history (Catholic writers whose works are a must read in all the major theological departments of colleges and universities, to say nothing of the scores of Lutheran and Evangelical theologians and converts to Catholicism) to say nothing of the writings of saints, martyrs, and stigmatists, all got it wrong.
This is so risible it explains why a number of articles have been written that treats Bible Christians as some sort of exotic species analyzing them for their insufferable shallow thinking. You take them outside the shallow level of Scriptural reading and they drown. You know, the kind you find in Billy Grahams, Joel Osteens, and your corner street Foursquare Church pastors. Add Jeremiah Wright, the Moonies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons to this mix.
As to the Catholic Church’s “wealth” this includes the priceless art works for all posterity and the glory of God. It’s the largest charitable organization in the world in schools, hospitals, nursing care centers, soup kitchens in just about every country in the world. There is no use of religion to accumulate “personal wealth for wives and children.
Yes, the catholic church with all those theologians and the renowned constellation of theologians, etc, have got it wrong...especially on Mary. The catholic church teaches one must go through Mary to get to Christ in direct contradiction of the Word.
"Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ. Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother." (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo XIII, 1903-1914)
Contrast with the Word: John 6:65. And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father."
There's more incorrect teaching by the catholic church on Mary, but that's a pretty glaring error.
There is no use of religion to accumulate “personal wealth for wives and children.
Then the catholic church should have zero problem in revealing its finances for all to see.
What denomination is it ? What is the compensation package for the paid staff ?
Denomination is Christian.
I don't have the budget in front of me right now.
This is a vain attempt at deflection. Bottom line is the catholic church will not release its finances.....why is the question.
I don't have the budget in front of me right now. This is a vain attempt at deflection. Bottom line is the catholic church will not release its finances.....why is the question.
I can wait, unless of course your earlier post was incorrect and it is hidden after all. Catholic clergy are, on average, paid less than Protestant clergy according to recent articles I read. Rabbis, Protestant, and Catholic in descending order by average compensation.
I'm not going to run right out and get the budget though just to satisfy you. However, the yearly budget for our church is just a shade over 2.7 million.
I can wait for you to start posting correct Biblical citations as well.
I'd also love to see the articles, if you really read them, that document what you claim regarding salaries of the various clergy.
As a reminder, the whole issue this started on was an assertion by a poster claiming that "there is no use of religion to accumulate "personal wealth for wives and children.." This is a dodge to avoid answering the question....how much is the catholic church worth. Why hide the finances?
I certainly don't think the vast majority of people entering the ministry do so thinking they will become rich if that's your assertion.
However, the issue still remains that the catholic church has not and will not reveal the earthly wealth it has accumulated for itself.
However, I did find this from CNBC:http://www.cnbc.com/id/100505651#.
Let's start with the basics: The pope emeritus will receive a monthly pension of 2,500 euros, according to Italian newspaper La Stampa.
That translates to almost $3,300, or close to the monthly maximum of $3,350 that Social Security will pay to an American who retires this year.
Few people will actually qualify for that amount. For starters, you would have to wait until 70 to retire. You would also have to spend most of your working life earning Social Security's taxable maximum pay, which is set at $113,700 this year.
"That's quite rare," said Richard Johnson, director of the program on retirement policy at the Urban Institute.
He pointed out that the average Social Security check is about $1,200 a month — not enough to pay for the typical American retiree's expenses.
"For most people, if you look at the median, Social Security counts for about 40 percent of their income. So it's important, but people rely a lot on other savings, like pensions or 401(k) savings," Johnson said.
A big nest egg is not something the pope emeritus has to worry about. The Roman Catholic Church will cover his living expenses, provide him with a spacious home inside the Vatican and pay for everything from cooked meals to housekeepers, according to The Telegraph.
Such services are not available to the typical American senior, unless he or she pays for an assisted living facility or resides in a nursing home, Johnson said.
However, I don't begrudge a man of God who is preaching the Word faithfully, being used by God to grow the Kingdom, visiting the sick, etc, whatever salary the church votes him to receive. Even Paul noted preacher boys should be paid.
Since this is the SBC average, and Southern Baptist congregations are typically not large.
The median number of participants associated in any way with the life of the congregation, is 125. When participation is limited to those who regularly attend, the typical congregation has 90 participants—60 adults and 30 children and teens. Using these figures from the sample data to infer to the entire population of Southern Baptist congregations, there should be 4.9 million regularly participating adults and another 2.5 million regularly participating children and teens (under age 18). , I see Baptist pastors making significantly more than parish priests.
Catholic Salaries
A survey conducted by the National Association of Church Business Administration found that Catholic priests earned some of the lowest wages for clergy in the United States. As of 2008, a Catholic priest can expect a median wage of $33,100 a year, while a Catholic music minister made $42,700 a year. By comparison, a Protestant minister earned an annual salary of $48,100, while a Protestant music minister earned an annual salary of $53,700 for that same year.
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