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The Early Church Fathers

Posted on 11/28/2014 9:44:39 PM PST by Steelfish

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To: Salvation

NO Baptists.


Why do you say no Baptists? any one can see that the apostles and even Jesus were Baptists.

Didn`t you see where Jesus took a whip to those money exchangers?


61 posted on 11/29/2014 8:20:05 AM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: ladyL

**I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.**

Note that catholic used here is not capitalized and means universal.

Bye, bye, your mistake not to believe.


62 posted on 11/29/2014 8:22:21 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Biggirl

Still Paul was Jewish, no ifs, ands, or buts.


I doubt that it makes any difference but Paul was a Jew in belief only, he was from the tribe of Benjamin.

The tribes of Judah were called Jews but that does not make all of them Jews.


63 posted on 11/29/2014 8:29:20 AM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: Salvation

The word “brother” was used to connote all cousins and others who held the Catholic belief.

Haven’t you ever read Paul?

Brothers and sisters,.................


Yes I have read Paul, what`s the point?


64 posted on 11/29/2014 8:33:52 AM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: Biggirl

You are correct in that both “brother” and “sister” have a multitude of meanings. Strongs concordance (79&80) lists siblings first, the other definitions follow so context in reading is very important. See Matthew 13:55-56.King James Version (KJV)

55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

So it begins with talking about Jesus’ earthly father, then about His mother, Mary, then about close friends or cousins? Nope , the reference was to siblings, upheld by all except for the RCC which does this to justify their Deity status of Mary. Sorry, your argument about brethern (same Strongs # as “brother) does not stand the test of scriptural study.


65 posted on 11/29/2014 8:39:13 AM PST by wheat_grinder
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To: Steelfish
The early Church fathers recognized that Peter was the “Rock” on which Christ established His Church. Here as the early successors to St. Peter.

Dude...this is easily proven wrong by simply reading what the ECFs said on this issue and a lot of the others you mentioned.

They are no where in universal agreement on Peter, Mary, etc.

Have you actually read what they've written or are you just regurgitating catholic dogma?

Quit before you further embarrass yourself.

66 posted on 11/29/2014 8:42:51 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: af_vet_1981
Jews came from only one tribe Judah. Jacob/Israel had 12 sons...In the blessings recorded in Genesis 49, Israel gave prophecies for each of the tribes named after his 12 sons. The 12 sons of Israel are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulon, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph and Benjamin. From each son came descendants which carried their father's name. From Reuben came the Reubenites, from Simeon came the Simeonites, from Levi came the Levites of whom was Aaron and Moses. So you see, the Jews came from Judah. You cannot paint the Bible with a Jewish brush. The church did and hid many of the Biblical truths from the laity...crowd control.

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Galatians 3:5

67 posted on 11/29/2014 8:46:24 AM PST by ladyL
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To: Steelfish
St. Augustine is a Catholic saint as is his mother St. Monica.

more false catholic teaching that some are elevated to sainthood and others not.

My mom and dad are Christian saints....as are all who are in Christ....as determined by the Bible.

68 posted on 11/29/2014 8:47:54 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ladyL

You are SO correct!!!! Here’s hoping someone reads your post and researches it further to come to know the truth!


69 posted on 11/29/2014 8:50:46 AM PST by wheat_grinder
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To: Salvation
I was never a Catholic. I was the only Protestant in a Catholic Girls school. I was a Boarding student and never saw a Bible during my years at SHA. Catholics do not know the Bible...if they did they would see that the Catholic church took out the 2nd Commandment so they could keep their statues and idols. Also they changed the 4th Commandment to distance themselves from the Hebrew faith, the faith that Yahshua walked in. DO YOU KNOW HOW UTTERLY DISPICABLE IT IS TO REMOVE ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS AND NOT KEEP ANOTHER ONE! I FEAR YAHWEH and my Salvation to partake in these BLASPHEMIES!!!

Please don't infer that I am blind when your own eyes are completely shut to Biblical truths.

70 posted on 11/29/2014 8:54:54 AM PST by ladyL
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To: ravenwolf
I do not say that just because it is not in the Bible that it is not true, I just believe it should not be preached as the Gospel.

For instance I believe Jesus was Mary`s only child but the Bible does not say that.

Most protestants believe Mary had other children but neither does the Bible say that.

Actually the Bible does very clearly say Mary and Joseph had other children. We need to look at the Greek though.

In Luke 2:7....And she gave birth to her first born son....

The greek for first born is πρωτότοκον. The word means first born or eldest. It allows for others to follow. In the eight instances it is used in the NT it always indicates that Christ was first and that others would follow.

Recall that Luke was a doctor and had researched all that he wrote. Surely he would know if Mary and Joseph had other children.

If he had wanted to say that Jesus was the only child of Mary and Joseph he could have used Υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ,(John 3:16) the only begotten.

As used in the NT μονογενῆ means the only one. There are no others.

If that's not sufficient proof, and it should be, we have the contextual statements in the Bible that clearly identify Jesus' other brothers and sisters.

71 posted on 11/29/2014 8:59:25 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
Being pronounced a saint is a process in the Catholic Church. It means something very different from the way protestants use the word.

Details here:

How does the Roman Catholic Church determine sainthood? [Catholic Caucus]
How Many Miracles are Required to Canonize a Saint?
Saints [Catholic, Orthodox, Open]
SAINTHOOD 101: Rules for Becoming a Saint [Catholic Caucus]
The Process of Becoming a Saint (Canonization) [Catholic Caucus]
Pope Lists Criteria for Causes of Canonization

72 posted on 11/29/2014 9:07:58 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ladyL

You are still yelling.


73 posted on 11/29/2014 9:09:00 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ealgeone
Strange that you believe that lie. For these men didn't.

The Perpetual Virginity of Mary - Brothers and Sisters of Christ?
Virgin Birth—or Prophetic Slip?
The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary
Aeiparthenos (An Anglo-Catholic Priest on Mary's Perpetual Virginity)
[Why I Am Catholic]: Because of the Protestant Reformers Beliefs On Mary
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary: Virgin and Ever Virgin
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
The Protestant Reformers on the Virgin Mary
Zwingli’s’ Mariology: On Mary “Full of Grace”

74 posted on 11/29/2014 9:10:18 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Steelfish

Dr. Luther was an avid student of the early Church Fathers and often quoted them as authoritative, but only when their words and teachings were in accord with Sacred Scripture. The Church faces dangers from within and without. It’s always been that way, and it always will be until this age is complete.


75 posted on 11/29/2014 9:21:28 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew (Even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.)
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To: Salvation

Your post 72. More man made stuff from catholicism.


76 posted on 11/29/2014 9:29:59 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ladyL
Jews came from only one tribe Judah.

I note you are publicly denying the testimony of the Apostle to the Gentiles. To which tribe do you imagine you belong ?


But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.


I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

77 posted on 11/29/2014 9:31:46 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: ealgeone

It’s always worth a try. Perhaps you will read them some day.

FWIW, the first saints, died for their faith.


78 posted on 11/29/2014 9:35:49 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
It always cracks me up when catholics appeal to Luther and those heathen Protestants. So which is it? Is Luther right? If so then catholicism falls apart.

You can't have Luther both ways.

btw....they're wrong. Jesus had brothers and sisters based on the Greek as used in the NT.

79 posted on 11/29/2014 9:40:14 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

And if you would read the Early Church Fathers (since they knew Jesus and the Apostles) you would find out that Mary had no other children.


80 posted on 11/29/2014 9:43:14 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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