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To: mrobisr
By pointing out that your own Bible and catechism doesn’t match up doesn’t mean “hater”.

The Bible tells us that Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

Jesus is the King of the eternal, redeemed Davidic Kingdom, the "Kingdom of God," or Christ's Church.

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, (Luke 1:32)

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. (Rev. 3:7)

In the Davidic kingdom, the mother of the king, the Queen Mother, or "Gebirah," enjoyed an exalted position, above that of the wives of the king, often sitting at the right hand of the king.

When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand. (1 Kings 2:19)
Mary is the mother of the King of the eternal, redeemed Davidic Kingdom. She is the Queen Mother of the eternal, redeemed Davidic Kingdom, or the "Kingdom of God." (The Ark, which contained the manna, Aaron's staff, and the decalogue, was a type for Mary, who held within her womb "the bread of life," the eternal High Priest, and the Eternal Word.)

Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm. A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” (Rev 11:19-12:1-5)


71 posted on 01/15/2015 8:17:12 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

You are saying that the Bible says that, but not one verse states that as fact. You are adding to and twisting the text, but it’s just not there. There are many traditions here on earth that will not be carried into Heaven. To imply the Davidic Kingdom rituals and traditions as Heavenly is ridiculous to say the least. Marriage was/is allowed, but Scripture clearly states that there will be no marriage in Heaven. There is sin on earth, but none in Heaven. Jesus had Brothers and Sisters and Mary had sex, but you deny that fact also. Obtw the verse from Revelation you mentioned isn’t about Mary. You might argue that’s it’s the Church while I say it’s the nation of Israel thus refers to twelve stars representing the twelve tribes. Mary was of one tribe not twelve.

Again you added Scripture to your Bible, the Ark contained exactly what Scripture said it contained.

Hebrews 9:4 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

4 In it stood the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which there were a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

Mark 6:3 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Matthew 13:55-56 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all this?”


73 posted on 01/15/2015 9:24:24 PM PST by mrobisr
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Jeremiah 7:18 says,

“Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” [Jeremiah 7:17-18]

God is telling Israel why He is about to physically destroy them as a nation. God is acting much like a Prosecutor who is informing the accused as to the charges against them. ...Notice that God is very angry that these people are preparing to worship the Queen of Heaven. He is saying that this worship of the Queen of Heaven is “provoking” Him to anger!

In Jeremiah 44:16-17.... Here, we see that the people are defiantly refusing to obey God, and are continuing to worship this Queen of Heaven.

... “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.”

We see that God has finally gotten the message, that the people are going to worship this Queen of Heaven no matter what He says. Therefore, God tells them to go ahead with their rebellion, because He is going to totally destroy them.

You can read the full account of this Divine Judgment in Jeremiah 44:1-20-29, and we encourage you to read it, for God never changes, and He would be just as enraged today about this idolatrous worship as He was then.


74 posted on 01/15/2015 9:47:04 PM PST by caww
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Pain in Childbirth was the result of the curse of sin.

Catholics would look at Revelation 12:1-2 and interpret “the woman clothed with the sun” as being a reference to Mary. Is this position correct? No, it is not.

If you notice the text in verse 2 it says that she was “with child and ‘she cried out being in labor and in pain.”

This is a problem because according to the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, Mary did not inherit Original Sin.

Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved ‘immune from all stain of original sin.”

Original Sin is “the hereditary fallen nature and moral corruption that is passed down from Adam to his descendants.

“Sin entered the world through Adam (Romans 5:12).
He is the first man who committed sin, and that sin is reckoned to all people (1 Corinthians 15:22; Romans 5:18).
This means that all descendants of Adam are under the effects of original sin.

Gen. 3:16,

“To the woman He said, ‘I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth. In pain you shall bring forth children. Yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.’”

Notice that part of the curse is pain in childbirth. This is why women suffer during the birth process. So, when we look back to the text of Revelation 12:1-2, we see that the woman clothed with the sun is suffering birth pain.

Since the Roman Catholic position is that Mary could not be suffering birth pain (because of her Immaculate Conception and no Original Sin), then these verses cannot be about Mary.


75 posted on 01/15/2015 9:56:44 PM PST by caww
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; caww; aMorePerfectUnion; daniel1212; Mark17; WVKayaker; metmom; mrobisr; ...
The Bible tells us that Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

This malfeasance in the handling of the Word of The God is exactly the way the the early logicians executed the system of Plato to turn metaphors into allegories that misrepresented the hermeneutic, the science of interpretation, to create doctrines believable on the surface, but inconsistent with the straightforward common sense of the Bible context. Taken individually, the props for this doctrine will not hold up when examined in the light of a literal, grammatical, historical, and cultural hermeneutic.

The whole Platonic persuasion takes the authority of Scripture's ability to interpret itself,, and removes it to the shoulders of the allegorizers who say, "We are the only agency who can interpret Scripture for you. You cannot read Scripture and find Biblical truths by yourself. To try to do so is anathema."

Therein is the great lie that Romanism perpetrates on its clientele, thus placing the reasonings of fallible, finite humans above the infallible, inerrant authority of the Preserved Word that The Great Jehovah places above His Own Name.

In the spiritual outpourings of David, speaking as carried by the Holy Spirit, and written as infallible Scripture:

"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name" (Ps. 138:2 AV)(my emphases).

And as the Jesus, approaching the Cross, asked the Father for His diciple Apostles, and their spiritual progeny, and the method by which they should be preserved from corruption:

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth" (Jn 17:14-16 AV).

And about sharing His Glory, Jehovah The Messiah says:

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. . . .
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another" (Isa. 42:8, 48:11 AV).

*******

The cult of Romanism falsely claims that Mary will be elevated to a special throne of Heaven to share His Glory and administer grace to earthly humans, by the hands and will of the allegorizers. It is by this mechanism of manufacturing misguided metaphors that the leadership of the local church at Rome has gained direct control over half of the unregenerated "Christian" population in other places and in other churches together with their material resources, and menaced the rest of Christ-followers. IMHO.

For shame.

79 posted on 01/16/2015 1:21:29 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
The Bible tells us that Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

No, Tom, it does not.

ROME tells you Catholics that is what the bible says.

84 posted on 01/16/2015 4:17:06 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”

Yup!

The dragonic church of ROME swallowed up Jesus all right!

85 posted on 01/16/2015 4:18:47 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
The Bible tells us that Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

Poppycock. It says no such thing.

If it does, provide us with the book, chapter, and verse.

88 posted on 01/16/2015 5:43:44 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Thank you for the information in your post.

It's helpful, though some of the responses here and on other threads give me worry for the posters who write them.

Our confusion appears to be as deadly as the pride and anger(?) that all combine so as to keep us divided.

We humans sure do love to fight about Love! What's up with that?

92 posted on 01/16/2015 8:19:15 AM PST by GBA (Just a hick in paradise)
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