The thing about the end times is that it is those who do not have the mark that go hungry and thirsty. Everyone else parties on. So if the world market crashes, enter the business man who has the answers.
Posted on 08/23/2015 8:07:24 PM PDT by markomalley
Filmmaker, evangelist and renowned bible prophecy teacher Joel Richardson says it is a time of change for the church, especially when it comes to teachings about the End Times and the rapture. The author of the New York Times bestseller “The Islamic Antichrist” recently appeared with Joe Schimmel on Rick Wiles’s TruNews radio program to discuss the what he believes is the false doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture.
Wiles himself supports the post-tribulation position, stating, “I personally do not believe that by the year 2020, any credible person will be teaching the secret pre-trib rapture doctrine. I think the events that are coming in the next five years will utterly destroy the doctrine.”
The pre-tribulation school of thought has been an important force in American Christianity for decades, with proponents such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice. This school holds believers will be raptured before the great tribulation during the End Times, thus avoiding it. In contrast, Richardson believes the rapture will not occur until during the tribulation period. Thus, believing Christians will not be spared the persecution and calamities of the End Times.
Richardson is featured on a DVD exploring the issue entitled “Left Behind or Led Astray?” During the film, Richardson explains what he sees as the crucial importance of the issue.
“It’s one of the premiere pastoral issues of our day. If you’re a pastor that’s not preparing your people to face potentially the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation, in this hour, simply because your denomination teaches it or whatever, personally I think you’re failing in your role as a shepherd and a pastor.”
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Yes. Most certainly. The spirit of supercessionism, replacement theology, clouded their vision. Dispensationalists, while still in error, begins to see beyond supercessionism.
Oh, and btw, not exactly true...
YOU are either Israel, or grafted unto Israel... which would make you Israel, all the same. What does that do to your thinking?
I thought it was interesting because I was under the impression that pre-tribulation rapture (ala John Nelson Darby) was the default position among evangelicals.
Depends who's an "evangelical". There's a lot of weird fringy stuff out there, in recent years.
For a large chunk, yeah, the Darby-Schofield Koolaid Well is the place to be.
To include Judah, btw...
The thing about the end times is that it is those who do not have the mark that go hungry and thirsty. Everyone else parties on. So if the world market crashes, enter the business man who has the answers.
Most definitely Christians in parts of the world are enduring tribulations and persecution. This is distinct, however, from the 7-year period described in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, given to the Apostle John. Most scholars I have read agree the period of Tribulation will begin with the signing of a peace treaty between Israel and the AntiChrist, a treaty that the AntiChrist will break halfway through the 7-year period, when the AntiChrist sets himself up in the Temple as a god.
Now, I have heard many arguments for pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib rapture. I have also heard arguments that the rapture will not occur until after the Millenial Reign of Christ on earth. I tend to believe in the pre-trib rapture, for the same reason other have stated. We are never promised that we will be shielded from persecution, trials and tribulations; but the Great Tribulation is the wrath of God being poured out on mankind, and as Christians, we are not subject to His wrath, having been saved from it by His blood.
But I do not claim to have the definitive answer to this question (neither does anyone else have the definitive answer, regardless of the certainty of their claims). And so while I pray for a pre-Trib rapture, I intend to live as though we will be here for the entire time.
Thanks - The Jews of Jesus’ day thought they had it all figured out - how He would come and what He would do. So they missed it. So I try not to get too tie up in numerology.
I do, however, like to consider their long view of history - that it was composed of this (their current) age and the age to come. And that the Messiah would come to close the current age (the end of the age) and usher in the new age (a new heaven and a new earth). This, I believe, is what the New Covenant is built upon.
I also believe that when Jesus says that “this generation will see it all”, that he was answering the disciples question: “Tell us, when will this be . . “ (Jesus makes a similar claim in the first verse of Revelation). And in Matthew Jesus ties his answer to Daniel - referring, I believe, to the 70 weeks. I highly recommend the (small) book: “The Seventy Weeks” by Philip Mauro. He uses nothing but the Bible to interpret the Bible - makes a great deal of since.
We’ll all know the truth soon enough - see you then.
To include all that will ever be saved.
There is only one resurrection called blessed in the word of God.
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Without question.
That does not mean that there were not believers among them, but simply what they preached was false at its core.
If it was false when the Revelation was given to John (”come out from her”) just think how utterly corrupt it must be today.
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The New Covenant is simply the old covenant perfected in sinless blood of our Savior.
Other than the removal of the temple and sacrifices, nothing else about it is changed. It still requires faith enduring to the end to be saved when he comes in the spirit to gather us.
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>> “ the Great Tribulation is the wrath of God being poured out on mankind” <<
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No, it is not!
It is the wrath of Satan being poured out on the saints.
The wrath of God comes at the end of the trib, in the bowl judgements. We are to be gathered at the Last Trump, the event that ends Satan’s tribulation.
The bowls will be poured out on Antichrist and his followers who have his mark.
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Oh, I believe it is far more than that. The New Covenant fully restores us - in the eyes of God (through the sacrifice of Jesus) - to the place of Adam and Eve before they sinned against God. It is the completion of the mystery Paul discusses - hidden until the fullness of time.
It really is too good to be true - it is the Good News - the Gospel!!
Oh, I believe it is far more than that. The New Covenant fully restores us - in the eyes of God (through the sacrifice of Jesus) - to the place of Adam and Eve before they sinned against God. It is the completion of the mystery Paul discusses - hidden until the fullness of time.
It really is too good to be true - it is the Good News - the Gospel!!
Yes, but my point is that I do believe I will be here to see the nation of Judah utter the words 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of YHWH'... One of the things that steadily pushed me away from Pre-Trib was the idea that we all get to go take it easy in heaven while 'DEM JOOOOS' get to take the full-force wrath of YHWH right in the teeth - And it turns out that ain't what the Bible says... One of the vestiges of Replacement Theology that certainly colors the Dispy's interpretation...
You don’t think that those that lived and believed in the day of Abraham receive that same benefit?
Yep, antisemitism lives and breaths in Dispensationalism.
The Tribulation is when God turns his attention to gathering up Israel(Jacob)(Jews) before the end. The Christian Church is gone, otherwise, why would God need to send the Two Witnesses & the 144,000 Jewish evangelists to do the job we’re supposed to do? There also has to be people to fill the 1000 year Kingdom who haven’t been raptured & haven’t got their transformed bodies so they can reproduce.
Your first mistake is in calling all Israel 'Jews'.
The Christian Church is gone, otherwise, why would God need to send the Two Witnesses & the 144,000 Jewish evangelists[...]
They aren't 'Jewish' evangelists, but rather Hebrew - Jews, The House of Judah, make up only two of the tribes of Israel... and but 24,000 of the 144,000. Where are the rest to come from?
[...] to do the job we’re supposed to do?
You assume that 'we' are doing our job, even as the Pharisees and Sadducees in their day.
There also has to be people to fill the 1000 year Kingdom who haven’t been raptured & haven’t got their transformed bodies so they can reproduce.
So that has to be 'Jews'?
Where does it say that our 'transformed bodies' don't reproduce?
Not my decision - but I would expect so. But not just because they were children of Abraham - Jesus made it clear that was not sufficient. But He is a just God - and not all turned away. Many believe that is why Jesus “descended” to Hades.
Still, we are on much firmer ground than they were.
Interesting discussion . . .
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