Posted on 06/03/2016 4:50:00 PM PDT by ebb tide
I thought according to everything I’m reading Luther was wonderful and had nothing to repent of? After all, according to some Protestants he saved Christianity.
But you are right and I stand corrected. I have no way of knowing if he repented of his sins before death. I hope he did. I wouldn’t want him or anyone else to go to hell.
I don't think anyone has ever said that nor implied that.
But you are right and I stand corrected. I have no way of knowing if he repented of his sins before death. I hope he did. I wouldn’t want him or anyone else to go to hell.
Your last sentence is well understood. Good on you to say that.
Yet he IS the Pope of the Roman Catholic church and you are to be in submission to him according to your OWN magisterium. Unam Sanctum says:
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (http://legacy.fordham.edu/Halsall/source/B8-unam.asp)
By what right do you proclaim that this Pope isn't "your" Pope when he was validly selected by your magisterium in a legal process? Then, how do you criticize and castigate Protestants who broke off from the corrupted Papacy of the middle ages with its corrupted and perverted gospel? It's hypocrisy.
Only that wasn't what Luther was doing. Are you familiar with the term "hyperbole"? It was and still is a way to use exaggeration to make a rhetorical point. You may have used it from time to time, even (i.e.; I'm so hungry I could eat a horse.) That was the context of Luther's talking about sin. This from http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/search?q=sin+boldly:
Luther was prone to strong hyperbole. It's his style, and this statement is a perfect example. The first thing to recognize is that the sentence is a statement of comparison. Luther's point is not to go out and commit multiple amounts of gleeful sin everyday, but rather to believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly despite the sin in our lives. Christians have a real savior. No amount of sin is too much to be atoned for by a perfect savior whose righteousness is imputed to the sinner who reaches out in faith.
See: Luther: Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong And: A Look at Justification By Faith Alone and Good Works in Luther’s Theology. For an anthology of statements from Luther on a living faith producing works, see: Quotations From Luther on Faith And Works. "Faith," said Luther, "is a living,restless thing. It cannot be inoperative. We are not saved by works; but if there be no works, there must be something amiss with faith."
“I don’t see any analogy between my comment and the prayer of the Pharisee.”
And neither did the Pharisee.
***I thought according to everything I’m reading Luther was wonderful and had nothing to repent of? After all, according to some Protestants he saved Christianity.***
Oh plenty have implied it. Out and out said it. But it’s ok with me I’m not about bashing anyone.
I have a different view than most. I have no problem with Luther speaking out against wrongs being committed by the Church. I do it all the time. My problem was with him leaving instead of trying to fix it. I’m not leaving. Let the heretics leave. I’m staying.
Nothing personal against Germans, but considering all this and the heretical Bishops we have there now nothing good seems to come from the German church.
Nice try. I’m not buying and you wouldn’t be either if that was coming out of Francis’ mouth.
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No one claims Martin Luther was a perfect man - NO ONE is except Jesus - and Luther would have readily admitted it. But he was a godly man who sincerely tried to remedy the many abuses and corruptions he saw in the Catholic church and rather than implement the necessary changes, the powers that be excommunicated him and would have had him executed. Even Pope Benedict XVI acknowledged the deplorable shape the Roman Catholic church was in during the Reformation times.
Luther stood for the truth of the gospel which is salvation by grace through faith apart from works. That some Catholics continue to condemn the man 500 years later is really silly especially since those that do have such little knowledge of him and what he preached. I recommend this site should you ever want to read the truth about the man instead of the propaganda and lies.
You can’t argue the real point, so you seize on the irrelevant fact that I used the phrase “I don’t see...”
There is, in fact, no analogy between praying for the death of a destructive person (who can be removed from office no other way), and the pseudo-prayer of the Pharisee.
Jesus has your answer.
Matthew 5:44
Luke 6:27-28
John 13:34
Romans 12:20
Pay special attention to V.17.
Romans 12:14-21 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
14 Bless them that persecute you: bless, and curse not.
15 Rejoice with them that rejoice; weep with them that weep.
16 Being of one mind one towards another. Not minding high things, but consenting to the humble. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17 To no man rendering evil for evil. Providing good things, not only in the sight of God, but also in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as is in you, have peace with all men.
19 Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 But if thy enemy be hungry, give him to eat; if he thirst, give him to drink. For, doing this, thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head.
21 Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil by good.
If I advocated doing violence to the Pope, I would be going against the words of Jesus. Asking God to do something to stop the damage the Pope is doing is not violence. Neither is it “cursing” the Pope.
You are to pray for a change of heart not their death. Love does no harm and praying for his death is hate which is not of God, but of Satan. You can twist it all you want, but you have again proven that you are just like the pharisee I mentioned earlier and are spiritually blind.
Maybe this pope is just what prophecy has called for. At some point your religion has to get into the bed of sickness and suffering and this very well might be the beginning.
Revelation 2:22
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