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More Parish Closings Nationwide - What Are We to Learn and Do?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-08-17 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 05/09/2017 8:08:13 AM PDT by Salvation

More Parish Closings Nationwide - What Are We to Learn and Do?

May 8, 2017

It was recently announced that a substantial number of Catholic parishes will be closing in Connecticut. This is just the latest in a national trend that is likely to affect the diocese where you live, especially in the north. I’d like to offer some rather quick thoughts and then ponder what I think is the root cause for our decline.

  1. Bishops don’t close parishes, people do. While it may be juridically true that bishops formally certify or give recognition to the opening, closing, and merging of parishes, it is ultimately God’s people who create or withdraw the need for a parish. The hard truth is that Catholics are contracepting and aborting in large numbers, thus depleting our ranks. Further, in most urban areas of the northeast, barely 15% of Catholics attend Mass regularly. In comparison, during the first half of the 20th century, when many of the parishes being closed today were being built, nearly 85% of Catholics attended Mass regularly. It is unrealistic for Catholics to expect that parishes should not be closed in significant numbers when there is so little attendance and concomitant support.
  2. Some point out that large numbers of Catholics have left the Northeast and headed south and west. That helps to explain why many parishes in the south and southwest are growing (even booming), but it does not mean that the overall population of the Northeast has dropped dramatically. To some degree, there has been a failure to evangelize, but the deepest wounds are in the decline of Mass attendance and our failure to hand on the faith. We are currently burying the last generation to be taught that Sunday Mass was an obligation to be met under pain of mortal sin.
  3. There is shared responsibility. It is easy to be angry at bishops and priests when parishes must be closed. Years of poor catechesis, a lack of effective preaching, and poorly celebrated liturgies have taken their toll and the clergy bear the first responsibility in this. However, dissent and division among the faithful and a drifting from the practice of the faith are also big factors. Many priest who do preach firmly and insist on clear doctrine are made to pay dearly.
  4. At the end of day, the clergy cannot take full responsibility for the problem, nor can they address it alone. Why? Because shepherds don’t have sheep, sheep have sheep. Evangelization cannot be just a problem for the rectory; it is ultimately a family problem. Parents and grandparents must do more to summon their children home and witness the power of the liturgy and sacraments to transform.
  5. Many blame the liturgy for the low attendance. While the liturgy as commonly celebrated today can seem bland and uninspiring, and much modern Church music “banal” (as the Pope recently remarked), the proposed solutions are bewildering in number and even where implemented attract only small numbers. For example, some have cheered the reintroduction of the Traditional Latin Mass, a form of the Mass that I happen to love. However, I don’t know of a single diocese in this country in which the number of Catholics attending that form accounts for more than 1% of all Mass attendees. Thus, the problem seems deeper than the external forms.
  6. The heart of the problem is an overall malaise. There is little urgency; few seem to feel the need for the faith, the Church, the sacraments, or the Word of God. In my opinion, a steady diet of universalism (the unbiblical notion that all or the vast majority of people will be saved, no matter what) inside the Church, and a steady diet of pluralism and relativism outside the Church have played the largest role in the problem. There’s no real problem seen, no hurry, no need for what we offer. At best we are just one product on the shelf of a boutique dedicated to the non-essential niceties that people dabble in if they have the time. The common view in our culture is that religion is a nice little way of accessorizing your life, but otherwise, who cares?

Given what I think is the root cause, how should we begin to stop the steady erosion of the practice of Catholic faith? I would agree with Dr. Ralph Martin that the first step must be to revive a more biblical vision of urgency regarding salvation. Just because many people—even among the clergy—say that there isn’t a problem doesn’t mean that there isn’t one.

Jesus was far more sober in assessing the situation. He devoted many parables and warnings to our need to attend to the salvation He offers. There are the sheep and the goats, those on the right and those on the left, the wise virgins and the foolish ones, those ready for the master’s return and those who are not, those who will hear, “Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world” and those who will hear, “Depart from me. I know you not.” Jesus noted that the road to damnation was wide and many were on it, and “only a few” were on the narrow road to salvation (Matt 7:13-14).

But just try to tell any of this to most people today and see what kind of response you get. My sense is that urgency is at an all-time low. Yet biblically, directly from Jesus Himself, it is clear that the likelihood of being saved is greatly reduced when one does not repent regularly and walk in the faith actively, including a heavy dose of Scripture and frequent reception of the sacraments.

Yet few people speak this way today. Many dismiss such speech as “fear-based” argument. The fact is, however, that some things should be feared, including our tendency to be hard-hearted and hard-headed, to prefer passing things and error to eternal truths. Running about in a panic is not helpful; we need sober acceptance of our vital need for the sacraments, the proclaimed Word, holy fellowship, and the transformative power of the liturgy.

Until this sober appreciation is recovered by many and demonstrated by the few of us who remain, the steady erosion seems likely to continue. Church closings may be “coming soon to a neighborhood near you.” It is sad to lose buildings, many of them works of art, but it is even sadder to ponder the human loss that the empty buildings represent.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: bluestates; catholic; christendom; churchclosings; connecticut; evangelization; secularization; trends
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To: ealgeone

Oh, I happened to re-read your post and noticed that you think we “worship” Mary. We don’t worship Mary, we ask her to pray for us.

What makes you think we worship her? (I am asking nicely, not sarcastically or anything.)


121 posted on 05/11/2017 10:29:35 AM PDT by Chicory
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To: Chicory
The idols of Mary in practically every Catholic church and home, the prayers TO Mary, the appeal to Mary for salvation, prayers, the invocation of her as Mediatrix, Co-redemptrix, Advocate, the belief that an apparition claiming to be Mary promised if you wear a piece of cloth you will be saved from the hell-fire, the necessity of being consecrated to the heart of Mary, the Catholic prayers of devoted all they have to Mary and serving her, etc, etc, etc.

The Fifth Marian Dogma when approved will make it crystal clear to all that Mary is indeed worshipped in Roman Catholicism.

122 posted on 05/11/2017 10:38:05 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone; Chicory
The use of the term "idol" in this context is tendentious. It assumes from the outset, the very thing which is in dispute because it is unproven, namely, that Mary is being worshiped as a deity. For your review:

Please attend to the difference between Dulia (Honor to angels and saints), Hyperdulia (Honor to the highest saint), and Latria (Adoration), --LINK which is different from the first two, not only in degree but in kind.

To ignore this is to ignore what Catholics actually believe and practice, and to attribute to them something (idolatry) which is untrue. This has been the basis for repeated moral defamation, perhaps because of failure to grasp essential distinctions between analogous but different things.

Thank you for this review.

123 posted on 05/11/2017 10:49:55 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("...with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love"- Eph 4:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The use of the term "idol" in this context is tendentious. It assumes from the outset, the very thing which is in dispute because it is unproven, namely, that Mary is being worshiped as a deity. For your review:

When Catholics stop making idols of her, praying TO her, consecrating their whole being to her, invoking her as mediatrix, co-redemptrix, advocate, etc, you might have a point.

Please attend to the difference between Dulia (Honor to angels and saints), Hyperdulia (Honor to the highest saint), and Latria (Adoration), --LINK which is different from the first two, not only in degree but in kind.

Though not supported by the NT and often rejected in the NT.

The Catholic would do well to heed the words and example of John.

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.” Rev 22:8-9 NASB

124 posted on 05/11/2017 11:35:16 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
We've been through this many times before. You ignored the distinctions between "Dulia" (honor of a holy person) and "Latria" (adoration of the Supreme Being) and consequently we can't pull forward from this impasse.

Any lurkers interested in an accurate Catholic view could go straight to the Catechism (LINK) (searchable by keyword) or (if you want) google keywords like

"Mrs Don-o" intercession Mary

and click through to get volleys of this stuff.

This note is for lurkers; that is, any who, hopefully, have ears to hear.

125 posted on 05/11/2017 12:59:29 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("...with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love"- Eph 4:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
We've been through this many times before. You ignored the distinctions between "Dulia" (honor of a holy person) and "Latria" (adoration of the Supreme Being) and consequently we can't pull forward from this impasse.

They're ignored as they are not supported by the revealed Word we call the Bible.

Any lurkers interested in an accurate Catholic view could go straight to the Catechism (LINK) (searchable by keyword) or (if you want) google keywords like

Any readers interested in the Christian view should open their Bible and read.

I also recommend gotquestions.org as a resource explaining the differences between Christianity and Roman Catholicism.

Lastly and most importantly, ask God to give you insight into this issue and all of the others discussed on these threads. He will answer because He promises He will answer.

126 posted on 05/11/2017 1:21:51 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Salvation

Start with “I”, not “we”.


127 posted on 05/11/2017 1:23:16 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (https://thepurginglutheran.wordpress.com)
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To: ealgeone

First, if all our statues were idols, then we would be worshipping the statues, not Mary.

Just as non-Catholic Christians often have a Cross in their homes and churches to remind them of the Resurrection, so we have things to remind us of many aspects of our faith. Neither your Crosses nor our statues are idols in any way.

When we pray to Mary, we ask for her prayers. Look at the Hail Mary:

Hail Mary, full of grace! The Lord is with thee << Luke 1:8, with the addition of her name

Blessed art thou amongst women << Luke 1:42, with the addition of the name of Jesus

And the rest is a request for prayer: Holy Mary, (you admit she was a holy person?) Mother of God (Luke 1:43) pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

So we appeal to Mary only for her prayers. She cannot save us, she can only intercede for us, but I see prayer requests from non-Catholics all the time: Please pray for my mother, who is very I’ll; Please pray for my friend, who is facing foreclosure; etc. 

Why should we not ask the greatest prayer warrior of all creation to pray for us? Why should we not ask Mary, whom Christ honored as His mother, to intercede with Him for us as she interceded for the host of the wedding at Cana? 

You mention her titles: Mediatrix, Co-redemptrix, Advocate. The last one is actually Advocatrix, and the second is co-Redemptrix.

Note that we always maintain those titles in a very feminine form. That is to maintain the subordinate role she plays in each of these roles of Christ. IOW, she is more like a secretary or enlisted person than a full partner. 

The reason for the co-Redemptrix configuration is that she is involved only as a human. Redemptrix remains capitalized because the task which she aided by accepting God’s request can be accomplished only by Christ.

The scapular is a voluntary spiritual aid. Like a set of weights or rowing machine, it only works if you work it, as they say ;)

Moreover, what Mary promised was that those who died wearing it would be taken to Heaven from Purgatory the Saturday after their death. This means that those who are not going in the right direction will not be wearing it when they die, it doesn’t offer a guarantee for wearing it.  This promise, btw,  is not officially approved by the Church. 

And the rest is, as I mentioned before, like swearing fealty to a duke or earl fighting for the King as one’s commanding officer. It in no way detracts from one’s fight for the King, it just means that one is committing to a certain position under the King. 

This makes a lot of sense if you consider that we are fighting a war against powers and principalities. We all need to work together.


128 posted on 05/11/2017 1:33:38 PM PDT by Chicory
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To: ealgeone
Yes, distinctions between "honor" and "adoration" are supported by the Bible. A short walk through any Biblical lexicon or concordance will verify this. You are confusing categories.

Let us pray for each other.

129 posted on 05/11/2017 1:36:28 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("...with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love"- Eph 4:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Yes, distinctions between "honor" and "adoration" are supported by the Bible. A short walk through any Biblical lexicon or concordance will verify this. You are confusing categories.

Yet we have no examples of praying TO created beings, nor building idols of them nor kneeling before them nor assigning them false titles, nor admonitions to consecrate ourselves wholly to them or to build shrines to them as we see in Roman Catholicism.

In the NT we have quite the opposite.

When Cornelius fell before Peter, Peter told him to get up for he was just a man.

25When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26But Peter raised him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am just a man.” Acts 10:25-26 NASB

When John fell down to worship the angel the angel told him to get up and worship only God.

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.” Revelation 22:8-9 NASB

When the Magi came they recognized the Child and who did they kneel before and worship? The astute reader will note they did not kneel before Mary to worship her. They worshiped the Child...Jesus.

11After coming into the house they saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Matthew 2:11 NASB

Prayer is never directed to a created being in the NT. It is directed to God.

The New Testament calls the Holy Spirit our Advocate...Roman Catholicism calls Mary Advocatrix.

The New Testament calls Jesus the one mediator between God and Man. Roman Catholicism invokes Mary as mediatrix.

The New Testament calls Jesus our Redeemer for He is the One Who shed His blood for us. Roman Catholicism calls Mary Co-redemtrix.

For every position of the NT involving the Holy Spirit or Jesus, Roman Catholicism has elevated a created being to an opposite position of these two. Upon closer inspection of Catholic writings one could argue Mary has replaced Jesus in some aspects.

As Jesus was a virgin and remained so Roman Catholicism insists Mary was a virgin and remained so in spite of numerous passages to the contrary in the NT.

As Jesus taught His disciples to pray to the Father, Roman Catholicism teaches their members to pray TO Mary.

The "Rosary", when performed correctly contains 53 prayers to Mary compared to six "Our Father" prayers.

Roman Catholicism teaches an apparition appeared and delivered a message that whoever wore a piece of cloth would be saved from the Hell-fire.

The NT teaches that those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life.

There's more that could be written. But this is sufficient for now.

The New Testament is squarely against Roman Catholicism and its worship of Mary.

130 posted on 05/11/2017 2:40:51 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Chicory
Moreover, what Mary promised was that those who died wearing it would be taken to Heaven from Purgatory the Saturday after their death. This means that those who are not going in the right direction will not be wearing it when they die, it doesn’t offer a guarantee for wearing it. This promise, btw, is not officially approved by the Church.

I love how Catholics disavow this when it's brought to light.

This was the message the apparition gave to St. Simon.

Our Lady gave St. Simon a scapular for the Carmelites with the following promise, saying : Receive, My beloved son, this habit of thy order: this shall be to thee and to all Carmelites a privilege, that whosoever dies clothed in this shall never suffer eternal fire .... It shall be a sign of salvation, a protection in danger, and a pledge of peace.

Based on the information below it looks like the RCC has endorsed this.

Many popes and saints have strongly recommended wearing, the Brown Scapular to the Catholic Faithful, including St. Robert Bellarmine, Pope John XXII, Pope Pius Xl, and Pope Benedict XV. For example, St. Alphonsus said: "Just as men take pride in having others wear their livery, so the Most Holy Mary is pleased when Her servants wear Her Scapular as a mark that they have dedicated themselves to Her service, and are members of the Family of the Mother of God."

Pope Pius XII went so far as to say: "The Scapular is a practice of piety which by its very simplicity is suited to everyone, and has spread widely among the faithful of Christ to their spiritual profit." In our own times, Pope Paul VI said: "Let the faithful hold in high esteem the practices and devotions to the Blessed Virgin ... the Rosary and the Scapular of Carmel" and in another place referred to the Scapular as: "so highly recommended by our illustrious predecessors." http://www.apostolic-carmel.org/scapular.htm

131 posted on 05/11/2017 2:48:49 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
You are still not making a distinction between honor and adoration.

For instance, when Cornelius "fell before" Peter, Peter said not to worship him because he is just a human bring. However, dozens of times in the OT, people kneel or even prostrate themselves toward priests, kings and prophets (e.g. Abraham and David), holy places (e.g. Jerusalem, the Temple) and holy things (e.g. the Ark of the Covenant) and they are not rebuked; in fact their piety is praised.

This is because they meant to signify dulia (honor), not latria (adoration).

The Bible illustrates this difference many times.

Please note these important distinctions. It is s failure to distinguish one from the other which leads to the wrong-headed accusation that Catholics offer adoration to Mary.

I'm out the door literally now, and cannot continue this catechesis.

Peace be with you.

132 posted on 05/11/2017 3:27:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("...with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love"- Eph 4:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Catholics live in the OT. It’s as if parts of the NT don’t exist.


133 posted on 05/11/2017 3:47:49 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Salvation

thye Spanish Mass in my parish is at 12:00...they brin in keyboards, a full drum set, guitars, etc....it is really a party atmosphere !!!!


134 posted on 05/23/2017 8:00:30 PM PDT by terycarl (s)
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To: ealgeone
If Roman Catholicism would stick with this and drop their false teachings on the need for Mary for salvation they'd be on to the Truth.

The Catholic church is the ONLY Christian church with the WHOLE truth....and Mary is not needed for salvation....Jesus is.

135 posted on 05/23/2017 8:09:04 PM PDT by terycarl (s)
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To: Biggirl
Also it would not be surprising if the horrors the priest sex abuse scandals of the last decade and a half played a BIG part in the decrease of Catholics.

the incidence of abuse among teachers, protestant ministers, scout leaders, etc. was MUCH greater than Catholic priests...not making an excuse, just pointing out reality.

136 posted on 05/23/2017 8:13:21 PM PDT by terycarl (s)
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To: Harpotoo
With this pope what’s the point in staying catholic?

You'd base your eternal salvation based on who's Pope ???????

137 posted on 05/23/2017 8:15:56 PM PDT by terycarl (s)
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To: ealgeone
Mary is not our mother. Yeah that’s the ticket. Keep pushing the false narrative.

Sure she is, our Heavenly Mother....you don't have to believe it, don't have to accept it.....but it IS.

138 posted on 05/23/2017 8:20:21 PM PDT by terycarl (s)
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To: ealgeone
In Roman Catholicism it's about faith in Jesus and Mary. . In Christianity it's about faith in Christ and Christ alone.

wrong again...Catholicism is the church that Jesus personally founded and while we certainly respect His mother, we do not rely on her for salvation.....that's Jesus' job.....

139 posted on 05/23/2017 8:34:01 PM PDT by terycarl (s)
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To: terycarl

But why was the harsh spotlight put on the Church and not on these other non-Catholic sources instead you would think?


140 posted on 05/23/2017 9:03:42 PM PDT by Biggirl ("One Lord, one faith, one baptism" - Ephesians 4:5)
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