Posted on 06/27/2017 7:15:05 PM PDT by imardmd1
It was a shock to many Jews that Gentiles could be saved. Romans 9:25,26 25As He says in Hosea: “I will call them My people who are not My people, and I will call her My beloved who is not My beloved,” 26and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
This where the grafting of Gentiles into the Chosen People occurs. Mark 2:27Then He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for Jews man, not Jews man for the Sabbath.
However, Christians are not under the law, but under grace...
Not trying for a hard sell here. And I sure have no interest in arguing Theology. But, as for me and my house, we will follow The Lord. I was dragged kicking and screaming some 20 years ago into keeping Sabbath and partaking of the Shabbat meal in our home. I cannot tell you how many ways our family has, and continues to be blessed in this simple practice! I can only humbly suggest that you give it a chance as I was convinced to do and see what will happen in your life. P. S. I am not a religious fanatic. Far from it.
"Under the Law" means what? It means under the condemnation of the Law. So I look at the Law and see "No stealing". I look at my neighbors tool shed unlocked and open and think I could get me some tools. According to God, that is the same as stealing. The only way to please God is to follow His Law and keep His Commandments and let God guide our thoughts. He must write His Laws in our heart. We have to do our part.
God could have saved Noah without him building an ark but man must always do our part. James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Thank you, FRiend.
quote-There is a direct quote from God that the seventh day is holy. No scripture abrogates that. A certain sect has appropriated authority to make Sunday the Sabbath. Of course Sunday begins at sundown Sabbath and the apostles were in the synagogs on Sabbath and then teaching the gentiles on the first day (Saturday night). read Acts 13:42 KJV as an example.
the_daug, you’ve accepted a false premise that rome is in charge of telling time for the Father.
They are not. They do take that authority and have been a vessel to blind the world, but we need not accept their premise of having any authority on ‘time’.
The Father uses His Son to tell time. Not rome.
But because of rome’s influence,
too many think wrongly that Christ died for our sins on rome’s friday- rome’s 6th Day.
Instead of the Scriptural Truth that Christ died for our sins as the Lamb on the Father’s Passover- the Father’s 6th Day.
One of those is part of the false 1st importance of the gospel:
according to rome and its catechism and rome’s calendar
One of those is part of the True 1st importance of the gospel:
according to the scriptures and The Father’s calendar
Paul taught one of those to the Corinthians.
And He didn’t use rome’s friday. That’s the false 6th Day. a counterfeit. Passover is the true 6th Day.
His Word also can teach us that ‘Day’ doesn’t begin in the evening or at midnight.
But it’s like the entire world is accepting too much that just isn’t so..
The whole world is truly being deceived, just as it was written in Revelation 12.
BipolarBob: Adam knew and handed down that information through oral tradition. Post #99
Poo. No one knows whether God instructed Eve as to the Garden rules, or whether Adam did as a prophet, but the way she retold the commandment was totally messed up, thus allowing her to be deceived by the serpent. That should show you that "oral tradition" apart from the Written and God-Approved Scripture is twisted even in the first repetition.
BB, this kind of answer to my question is just theological vaporware, no substance to it at all. To me, your opinion on this is less than worthless--it is very harmful.
Bipolar Bob: Catholics are big on oral tradition so they probably already knew this. Post #99
And we know where that has taken them: into long, deep, and continuous error, especially as the place their opinion from it as an authority superior to the Holy Scriptures (as your slant on this does for your claims proceeding from between your ears). Their doctrine is essentially of salvation through "good" (?) works (as your argument does), and thus is not saving at all (like yours).
Bipolar Bob: If through neglect the Sabbath was forgotten, it was re-instituted when Moses came onto the scene. Post #99
First, there is not on iota of information that there ever was a Sabbath or of a commandment from God about it in Scripture until God gave it to Moses on the Holy Mount. Even before that,
(1) For one thing, humans today would not have one inkling of the origins of the race had not Moses written it down, having received it directly from The God "I AM" or from his personal experience.
(2) Moses did not seem to know if there was a particular day for rest, when he asked Pharaoh (Ex. 5:3) to release the Israelites to go out into the desert to worship El Shaddai (for it was not until the day of Moses that He had disclosed His Name "Jehovah" to anyone; Gen. 17:1, 28:3, 35:11, 43:14, 48:3, Ex. 6:3). Any day would have done, and why three days journey out? Because it would be three days back, plus one worship day there, which would be seven days.
And would they rest on that day? Sure, because in contrast, Pharaoh's determination was to work them to death. That is why God sent Moses to them (Ex. 3:8-10). Not only had the Israelites not a Sabbath (they apparently slaved for Pharaoh seven days per week, Ex. 3:7-9). If they had been commanded by El Shaddai to be resting every seventh day, would they ever have been deluded into servitude from the freedom they had under Joseph, some 400 years before? There is no Scriptural intimation that they were clashing about that, eh?
How they knew they had a different God than the Egyptians was that they bore the physical sign of El Shaddai's Covenant with Abram/Abraham, but in all that story in Genesis, there is not a hint of a sabbath or of honoring one day a week above the others. Nor was there any oral tradition handed down anywhere along the line from Adam.
El Shaddai was to be honored every day in the Garden or out of it, and from time to time, because of Sin sacrifices were made, starting with the slaying of animals for clothing our federal head, Adam (and Eve).
But no particular day is given for it, not even in Genesis 3, all of which was given by Jehovah to Moses for the God-breathed written history that we now have. Oral tradition counts zero.
Does The Father take off a day to rest every seventh day? I doubt it. Jesus said "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work" (Jn. 5:17 AV)(in the present tense, meaning "constantly" without a break, in both uses). Do the Spirit of God or Jesus take a break from praying for us every "Sabbath" (Rom. 8:26-28,34; verbs in the present tense)? Did Paul, the writer of this epistle take time off from praying for the Roman church, nor any other of the churches he planted, nor of the disciples that he made? I think not:
"For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; . . ." (Rom. 1:9).
But now, look at this:
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose" Here, also the word "sunergo", meaning "work together" is also in the present tense. "All things" does not stop working every seventh day. Jesus is equated with leading sheep, as the Great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20-21). Des a shepherd quit working on the Sabbath?
Bipolar Bob: We have clay calendars that go back that far, so we're in the clear.
You do? If you claim this as fact, the time is now for you to come up with a verifiable example of it. Or any example of hieroglyphics, or Sanskrit, or odes from the Greek or Roman poets and writers before the Age of Grace, that illustrate exactly that there really was a Sabbath observed in their cultures. So, do it, before claiming this again, please.
Bipolar Bob: Also Jesus would have corrected it if needed. Obviously that was not the case. So we can be sure we are observing the same Sabbath that God rested on at Creation.
More non-information smoke-and-mirrors presumptuous unsupported claims. It is by the Holy Spirit that Christ's churches have preferred, in their Christian liberty, to gather for The Remembrance on the first day of the week, in honor of the outpouring by the Indwelling Holy Ghost. But every day is just as holy, to the Biblical follower of Jesus, who worked on the Jewish Sabbath through preaching, teaching, healing, and travelling.
Bipolar Bob: And will do so continually throughout eternity.
You (plural) will?
Firstly, there are millions of humans observing the Sabbath of this time who, through lack of being regenerated by the Holy Ghost through Faith in Jesus, God's Messiah, will never observe it again while they are eternally toasted.
Secondly, there is no night or time in God's Heaven, so it is there either an eternal Sabbath, or there is none. But if it is, it will not be one of the kind you are claiming. IMHO.
And note, the reason one goes to all this effort is just to point out the holes in your doctrine of Sabbatarianism, as does the writer of the piece that was initially posted. I recommend that the readers scrutinize it carefully before responding only to the abstract.
When the Children of Israel left Egypt, manna fell every day except the Sabbath. Not hard to count from a hard and fast starting point.
Backtrack to Exodus 12:2 Establishes Abib (now Nisan) as the First month of The Hebrew calendar. It had been established as the month of the first harvest. I don’t know at this point how it was calculated, nor how long this had been in existence. The death angel visited on the 14th and passed over the firstborn when he saw the blood. When were they travelling? The next day and thereon. No manna yet.
The day didn’t have to coordinate with the date.
Jewish tradition records the first manna fell on a Sunday, the 16th of Iyar. That was when their supplies taken from Egypt ran out.
Well if one believes the ten commandments are done away with then one believes we should not keep the sabbath. This commandment cannot and is not separated from the other 9.
It’s a physical and spiritual law of God just as the others are.
When people tell you they keep all nine of the Ten Commandments either their math skills are lacking or their logic center has shut down.
The day didn’t have to coordinate with the date.
You mean, the day of the week. And that is true. So there must have been about 4 weeks until manna. And water, too, just before it.
Reading this passage, the seventh day became the first Holy Sabbath. On the sixth day Moses said:
"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning" (Ex. 16:23 AV).
Somebody must have figured a way to calculate the time from 14 Abib until then, eh?
That's nothing. The New Testaments records fity commandments of Jesus, and His disciples are to "observe" them all (Mt. 28:20).
One of them is that each (at least of the men, but I would include women) is to carry a sidearm of a deadly weapon, and if one does not have the cash, to sell your extra coat to get one. Do you know how many of the disciples at the Last Supper were already armed?
Do you carry a sidearm to church? As did the Pilgrims?
The sabbath was built into the framework of our reality. It's part and parcel of an earthly existence...the cycle of night and day constitute a day...every seventh one is the sabbath.
IT was set into motion at creation...Adam and Eve knew about it. Look at this verse:
Gen 4:3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.
"in the process of time" is literally "at the end of days". Many scholars believe this is a reference to the 7th day sabbath...the holy sabbath created earlier by the Lord Jesus Christ. The "end of days", the last day, is the sabbath.
The sequence was likely lost to the children of Israel while in Egyptian captivity and so God (again) revealed it in Exodus 16.
NOTE that in Exodus 16 God commands his followers to KEEP the sabbath...BEFORE the old covenant was discussed or agreed upon. This makes sense since he created the sabbath BEFORE any covenants were made. So the sabbath FALLS out side of any covenants as a holy thing of God in and of itself.
I don’t see sidearm carrying in the Ten Commandments. Were the instructions to them personally? for a special occasion? The main Commands He spoke of were to love God with all thine heart and all thy might and your neighbor as yourself. These are the two precepts of the Ten Commandments. The first four are our obligation to God (KJV) and the last six our obligation to our fellow man. This is the Law of God.
Here is one place that a training course in them can be found:
Commands of Christ,
Series 1-7 Set by Institute In Basic Life Principles (click here)
(The 49 they list does not include the 50th imperative that I mentioned, for some reason; Luke 22:36)
Well this is kind of a misnomer. Jesus didn't teach anything that WASN'T already in scripture. He taught what his father taught...
Joh 15:8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
Joh 15:9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
Jesus could only abide in his father's love by following HIS commandments...one of which was the sabbath which Jesus definitely obeyed.
It's abundantly clear that the abandonment of the holy sabbath is a time honored tradition of man and NOT a commandment or wish of Jesus Christ. Church history is clear on this.
Regarding a seventh day . . . your citation seems to be irrelevant. There is no place in the pre-Mosaic covenants that a special day of religious observation is mentioned, or even hinted, AFIK. On the seventh day of the Creation episode, God rested. It doesn't even hint that Adam also rested, does it? Unless it was when he was anaesthetized for the removal of a rib. Hmm?
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