Posted on 03/05/2018 7:51:35 AM PST by Salvation
Yeah -— if David quit polygamy.
Forget polygamy....what if it were just him and Bathsheba?
David's 8 wives:
Michal
Ahinoam
Abigail
Maachah
Haggith
Abital
Eglah
Bathsheba
David's 18+ children:
Amnon
Chileab
Absalom
Adonijah
Shephatiah
Ithream
Shammua
Shobab
Nathan
Solomon
Ibhar
Elishua
Nepheg
Japhia
Elishama
Eliada
Eliphalet
Tamar
Naturally, anybody who repents of sin can be forgiven: repents with the intention of actually turn away from the sinful acts with the Lord's strength and grace.
The Lord accepts the broken-hearted. We know that. All of them.
So to answer your (hypothetical) question:
Rent a bus and bring the whole repentant House of David to the baptismal font!
Point of curiosity: in *your* church --- assuming we're talking about a hypothetical David-on-earth, not David-in-heaven --- how many wives could the newly-baptized-Christian David keep, and which one(s)?
Because Rome thinks it's holier than God?
And what would you demand he do?
DIVORCE his other wives?
In which situation would he not be sinning?
It sure seems that the Catholic church needs to learn this from God.....
Matthew 9:10-13 And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” But when he heard it, he said,“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
God forgives and FORGETS our sin. The Catholic church still holds it to their account.
** The Catholic church still holds it to their account. **
?? about your statement??
When we avail ourselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation/Penance/Confession God forgives and FORGETS our sins.
Then why doesn’t the Catholic church?
You might want to share that with some of your fellow Roman Catholics.
They seem to want to keep the sin in front of someone.
Here's the rule we apply to all our polygamous converts in Africa: If the first marriage was valid (meaning not irregular for some other reason such as bride being underage or not consenting), that first wife is your one-and-only honest wedded wife and the rest are not.
Given that the children from the multiple women are the man's natural children, he still has an obligation to love and provide for them and contribute to raising them. But wives 2, 3, 4, ...n should be free to find other men to marry. On a one-to-one basis.
Jesus called second-marriages adulterous, as you know. Three times, in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke.
I don't particularly like that word, actually, but that's the word He used.
"In which situation would he not be sinning?"
Abstaining from the beds of the other multiple women is not a sin. Th other women were not true wives. Again, that's according to Jesus, who taught exclusive monogamy, and said one-man-one-woman-one-flesh marriage was God's law "from the beginning".
"It sure seems that the Catholic church needs to learn this from God."
That's who we did learn it from: Jesus. From whom did YOU learn monogamy?
"God forgives and FORGETS our sin. The Catholic church still holds it to their account."
In this you are mistaken, metmom. All sins, even adultery, can be repented, forgiven, and then thought of no more. You are washed clean by God's forgiveness, for He DOES both forgive the repentant and give them strength not to return to that sin. The adulterous person, being forgiven, *stops* his/her adultery from that day forward.
Or do you think a person can persist more or less continuously in adultery, and still be considered repentant?
If --- to make it into a totally fictitious situation, not the one recounted in the Bible --- David has just one living wife, and that is Bathsheba, and she has only one living husband (David) then no problem, they can both become Catholics. They could enter the Catholic Church by Baptism, as everybody does, and their marriage could be convalidated (recognized by the Church) after their baptism.
If (as in their actual marital situation as documented in the Bible) Bathsheba AND SEVEN OTHER WOMEN are claiming to be David's wives, he'd have to faithful to his first wife on the basis of monogamous marriage.
The Catholic Church doesn't allow the practice of polygamy.
Does yours? How would your church handle polygamy? Would it be OK?
Would they be allowed communion?
Forget the Catholic Church. If someone murdered the husband of the woman he wanted to marry, in what church would the clergy perform the ceremony?
You could probably find one, no doubt, but most would decline.
God did not require David give her up, and in fact the bloodline of Christ goes back through Bathsheba. Honest repentance washes you clean. A clergyman who knew these two well enough to know the depths of their sorrow over what they did, might well agree to perform the ceremony. But most would not.
Granted that God seems to have looked the other way on the issue of multiple marriage in that era... but no orthodox Christian church will knowingly perform the ceremony for someone in a multiple relationship. So once you consider murder and multiple marriage, maybe David isn’t the best example for us.
Still, God uses imperfect people, and as was pointed out, despite his flaws his psalms have pride of place in Old Testament Scripture, and no one doubts David’s intimate walk with God. But doing his umpteenth marriage would still be a bridge too far for most pastors.
Now, if he wanted to marry Jonathan, there are probably some churches that would perform that ceremony... :)
I’m only asking about a situation where it’s just David and Bathsheba....no other wives are in the picture.
I can’t say that we’ve ever had a potential member who is married in a different culture and has multiple wives apply for membership.
So your solution is for the man to divorce them, eh?
And who gets the kids?
Don't do that. If you're just going to adopt an accusatory tone and make judgments against the honesty of my intent, it drains my motivation to even try.
So I say again: concerning David and Bathsheba: if they were right here in 2018 and intending to be received into the Catholic Church, we'd have to look carefully into their marital status. Since David lives polygamously, that would have to stop because the Catholic Church does not accept polygamy.
If we assume his partners have likewise been time-transported into the 21st century, David would have to make a choice, a clear yes or no: if he's willing to give up his plural partners and commit to his one true wedded wife --- that is, his first wife, forsaking all others --- then he could become a Catholic.
IF on the other hand, we assume that nobody has been time-transported into the 21st century except David and Bathsheba, all their previous wives, husbands, etc. being dead and in the grave for centuries --- then I assume they would be widow and widower with respect to other spouses, and free to marry if they wish --- as well as free to make a profession of faith in Christ and be received into the Catholic Church.
In other words, they can't enter the Church as parties to some kind of plural marriage. They have to be either truly single, or truly and monogamously married, with no other living spouses or semi-spouses out there.
In 1000 BC, David's time, polygamy and divorce/remarriage were both tolerated by Mosaic law. In the New Testament Church, according to Christ's precept, this is no longer permitted.
Abstaining from marital relations with multiple women does not mean abandoning the children.
No murders?
To: Mrs. Don-o
Forget polygamy....what if it were just him and Bathsheba?
42 posted on 3/6/2018 10:57:38 AM by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
Hence the reason why I suggested you were dodging the question. You can follow the remainder of the thread.
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