Posted on 03/05/2018 7:51:35 AM PST by Salvation
No one can post shorthand on FR.
Clergy are supposed to be married, just like God commands in His inspired word.
Who would have thought?????
1 Timothy 3:1-13 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:5-16 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
In the text, as soon as David is confronted by Nathan with his sin, David confesses to God his sin and is forgiven.
1Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness; According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions. 2Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity And cleanse me from my sin.
3For I know my transgressions, And my sin is ever before me.
4Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge.
Psalm 51:1-4 NASB
As for David, he paid a high price as did his family, as did Israel, for his behavior. He was repentant and forgiven, but a lot of damage was done that couldn’t be undone... he destroyed his family. People always say, David did “x” and yet God loved him... which is true. But he and his family and Israel paid a heavy price.
No doubt the consequences of sin are there.
Sometimes the consequences are jail, loss of family/friends, STDs, etc.
Though I don't think we should say the kind of consequences that were upon David would be upon everyone for not everyone is in David's position.
But to say the person is forever cut off from the family of God is wrong from what I've seen in Scripture.
Seems Roman Catholicism allows different standards of "forgiveness" depending on the sin.
David repented.
Yes he did, he repented to God and was forgiven by God.
If he were alive today his marriage to Bathsheba would not be recognized nor would he be allowed to participate in the Lord's Supper or what Roman Catholics call the Mass.
If God can forgive him...why won't Rome?
It is noteworthy that, despite all, God did not require David leave Bathsheba. He did take the child born from their transgression, but they remained a couple, and their second child was anointed king with God’s apparent approval.
And its noteworthy that the bloodline of Christ goes back through Bathsheba.
So with repentance comes forgiveness and the opportunity for rebuilding.
Further to the point, the fact that something is forgiven does not mean that its OK, the fact of repentance means you recognize that it wasn’t OK. You recognize that in fact you were wrong, you do need to be forgiven, and you’re determined not to make that mistake again.
It gets tricky when you try to lay down law. If someone murders someone in order to be with that man’s wife, should a church recognize that marriage? Just as a practical matter? If God forgives, which he can and does, should they be married in church?
If one of my RCIA students had this man's notion of "conscience" --- that even the most malformed conscience will, in the end, trump the clear Laws of God --- I would not recommend him to be received into the Church: on the grounds that he does not know enough about Catholicism.
Are you talking about Cupich or Wuerl, or both of them?
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Biblically, a marriage is when a woman moves into the house a man has provided for her.
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Both. If I am not mistaken -— correct me if I’m wrong -— they are in agreement.
Thanks. Yes, they are in agreement.
Would David and Bathsheba be accepted in the Roma Catholic Church today?
NOT!
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That is precisely what is decribed as marriage in Torah.
Nicolaitan marriage has nothing to do with Yehova.
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Granting that David repented of his crime, and was forgiven...
Still, under these circumstances, keeping in mind the murder of the husband, would any parson or vicar perform the ceremony? Would any church allow them a church wedding?
They would certainly be welcome in the pews, as penitent believers, but not many pastors would be ready to perform the wedding ceremony. Maybe if he was a personal friend and understood how contrite they were...
And yet we have the inspired Psalms all by King David.
Amazing. People are complicated.
The OT doesn't question the validity of the marriage. IIRC the texts do not say their marriage was invalid.
They would certainly be welcome in the pews, as penitent believers, but not many pastors would be ready to perform the wedding ceremony.
Based on some of the comments from some of the Roman Catholics on these forums, I'd question if they would be welcome.
Would they be able to partake of communion in a Roman Catholic church?
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