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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Your personal opinion: “We are never called to pray, nor talk to them - nor is there any proof they can hear us. Zero.”

God expects us to pray for one another. We see this in both the Old and New Testaments.

In a dream, God commanded King Abimelech to ask Abraham to intercede for him: “For [Abraham] is a prophet and he will pray for you, so you shall live” (Gen. 20:7). When the Lord is angry with Job’s friends because they did not speak rightly about God, he tells them, “Let my servant Job pray for you because I will accept his [prayer], lest I make a terror on you” (Job 42:8).

Paul wrote to the Romans: “I exhort you, brothers, through our Lord Jesus Christ and through the love of the Spirit, to strive with me in prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the disobedient in Judaea and that my ministry may be acceptable to the saints in Jerusalem, so that in the joy coming to you through the will of God I may rest with you” (Rom. 15:30-32).

James says: “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (James 5:16-17). Thus, according to Scripture, God wants us to pray for one another. This must mean that prayer for one another cannot detract from the role of Jesus Christ as our one mediator with God.

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. (Rev. 8:3–4) (Saints includes those living on earth and those living in Heaven.)

Again, you vilify tradition just by stating your opinion without factual basis.

Is your bias against Catholicism helping you avoid the Truth?

As Christ told Thomas, “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”


77 posted on 06/24/2018 9:54:10 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM
Your personal opinion: “We are never called to pray, nor talk to them - nor is there any proof they can hear us. Zero.”

Easy Peasy then: chapter and verse that shows we are called to pray or talk to departed saints and that they can hear us.

God expects us to pray for one another.

Yes! Non-departed believers who are on earth.

[Here I am gutting all the verses you posted that say nothing about praying to departed saints]

As it turns out, you posted no facts to prove we are to pray to departed saints. Zero!

Again, you vilify tradition just by stating your opinion without factual basis.

No, I asked you to prove your claim was more than just opinion and hopefulness and paganism.

You demonstrated again that you have nothing from Scripture to support this crazy belief.

I keep asking you to prove it.

Use unbroken history, use Scripture, use contemporaneous secular art.

Zip.

Where is the proof??

78 posted on 06/24/2018 10:03:32 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ADSUM; aMorePerfectUnion

Praying FOR someone is not the same as praying TO some one.

And Catholics pray to saints, even when they claim they are just asking them to pray for us, they are still praying TO them to make a request of them for something.

We are to pray to God alone.

Jesus never taught anything else, nor did any other apostles.


90 posted on 06/24/2018 1:47:48 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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To: ADSUM; aMorePerfectUnion
God expects us to pray for one another. We see this in both the Old and New Testaments.

Yes....we pray FOR, not TO, one another. There is no biblical injunction to pray TO another created person or object.

*************************

In a dream, God commanded King Abimelech to ask Abraham to intercede for him: “For [Abraham] is a prophet and he will pray for you, so you shall live” (Gen. 20:7). When the Lord is angry with Job’s friends because they did not speak rightly about God, he tells them, “Let my servant Job pray for you because I will accept his [prayer], lest I make a terror on you” (Job 42:8).

Notice the clear teaching of praying FOR someone on earth...not TO someone on earth.

*******************

Paul wrote to the Romans: “I exhort you, brothers, through our Lord Jesus Christ and through the love of the Spirit, to strive with me in prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the disobedient in Judaea and that my ministry may be acceptable to the saints in Jerusalem, so that in the joy coming to you through the will of God I may rest with you” (Rom. 15:30-32).

Notice the clear teaching that the prayers of the believers in Rome are to be directed to God....not a created person.

Notice also Paul is writing to believers in Rome who are on earth.

***************************

James says: “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (James 5:16-17). Thus, according to Scripture, God wants us to pray for one another.

*****************8

Again, notice the clear Biblical teaching. Believers confess sins to one another....not a priest.

Believers pray for one another. James is writing to believers who are alive on earth.

This must mean that prayer for one another cannot detract from the role of Jesus Christ as our one mediator with God.

This part I cannot believe you, as a Roman Catholic priest, actually wrote as it contradicts your denomination's position on Mary as co-mediatix.

But you are correct on this...Christ is the believers ONE mediator with God. Mary is not.

******************

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. (Rev. 8:3–4) (Saints includes those living on earth and those living in Heaven.)

Your presumption these are saints both on earth and in Heaven is not supported by the context of Revelation.

Honestly, what kind of hermeneutics training, if any, do Roman Catholic priests receive?

109 posted on 06/24/2018 3:16:47 PM PDT by ealgeone
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