Posted on 07/10/2018 12:24:36 PM PDT by Sontagged
See, it's me, myself... touch me, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as I have... and then He ate some meat and honey.
(Etc.)
Not commenting on this dispute....but the fact that the resurrection occured( i.e.....
Life from death)...is what is germane...... I dont remember the apostles having this discussion.
Only living bodies can take in food and drink. The risen Lord did partake in their sight.
Earlier two of the disciples who had fled came upon a Stranger cooking flatbread & some of the fish they had caught at His command. From the campfire the risen Lord bid them, “Come and have breakfast!”
Food is a Biblical metaphor for life and the Eucharist is food for eternal life.
Horton asserts the assumption that, "Now a flesh and bone body must necessarily still have quite a bit of blood in it."
Jesus said flesh and bone. The Power of the Creator is such that HE can make any type of body for resurrection that HE chooses to make. What will be the next bold assertion, that the resurrected Christ MUST have Oxygen? Must have food? The root of heresy in Preterism is assumptions, and this assumption of necessary blood is in the same vein of arrogant assumption over what God can do.
I suppose it’s like if one of your parents died and you wept in grief and buried them...and then your dad walks in the door, fully alive!
You’d be frightened at first, until he said for you to touch him, and to feel his bones and flesh... and then ate food with you..
You wouldn’t have a conversation about whether or not your dad had actual blood running in his veins, because it would be obvious that he did, and in Jesus’ case, if He did NOT have blood in his veins, he would have expounded upon this fact as being important, as Jesus then expounded upon the Scriptures to His disciples.
Not commenting on this dispute....but the fact that the resurrection occured( i.e.....
Life from death)...is what is germane...... I dont remember the apostles having this discussion.
That is pure speculation ... and it seems more reasonable that the glorified body will consume 100% of what it takes in without any waste.
I have no biblical data to support that speculation ... but having an immortal body seems inconsistent with waste products. If there are no reproductive capabilities ... "they are like the angels ..." then it is reasonable that some other functions of our current unglorified bodies would be changed or discarded.
Just my unglorified opinion ...
Your words: “Only living bodies can take in food and drink.” You are absolutely correct, and bodies like Jesus indwelt before burial was like our own now, drawing life from the blood. The body Jesus has now is not the same in all details as what we have now. The BIBLE, the Word of God is explicit in explaining that. The new bodies will not draw life from the blood. The BIBLE offers that when it tells us after the Rapture of believers we will draw life FROM THE SPIRIT. ‘Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom’. BUT Jesus gave a huge hint that we will still be able to eat and drink, for on the night before He was crucified He told His disciples HE would not drink of the vine again until come into The Kingdom where He would drink the cup with them. The cup held fruit of the grape vine. Jesus will not be drinkling His blood in the Kingdom.
You didn’t read the article...
You are basing an entire doctrine upon the omission of the word “blood” from an idiomatic phrase “flesh and blood” which does not mean the same thing, in Biblical context, as “flesh and bones”.
John wrote that we don’t know now what we shall become, but when we see Him, we shall know (what types of bodies we will have in the resurrection). This means John believed Christ was in the same fleshly body He had on the Cross.
The same human flesh body that went up to Heaven.
Jesus only changed into His glorified body AFTER the ascension. And so John writes that “we have not seen Him” in that glorified state, but we will know when we do see Him, what we shall be changed into.
There was nothing spiritual or immortal or immaterial about Jesus’s appearance after He was resurrected, though this did not preclude Him from performing the same miracles He did before the Cross.
Elijah went up to Heaven in a normal body, just as Jesus ascended to Heaven in a normal body of flesh.
Lazarus was raised into his regular body and ate food with Jesus just as Jesus was raised in His regular body and ate food.
I see no point in engaging in this thread.
After being accused of “negating and discrediting Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross”, “Jesus was resurrected in His Divine nature, not His Human nature”, and “making things up”, I don’t see the point.
I tried on the other thread to clarify what I said but I just kept getting accused of not believing in the bodily resurrection of Christ.
Scripture does not tell us either way if Jesus resurrected body had blood, and to be dogmatic that it did is as much without support as to be dogmatic about Him not having blood.
And claiming that *flesh and bones* by necessity means blood, and to argue that Jesus’ body changed on the way up sounds too much like rationalization, trying to convince me with reason instead of trying to convince me with Scripture.
Flesh and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God and yet we WILL eat and drink in that kingdom.
This is all I am posting on this thread.
Read the article and there was no accusation against you personally, you must know that; and if not, forgive me, for that was not my intent, rather as you know, my intent is to extricate any Gnostic NAR type thinking from both of our beliefs.
This article addresses your “flesh and blood” vs. flesh and bones concerns, please just read.
My main concern is that if one does not believe the fleshly body of Jesus that was raised from the dead is the same body of flesh He had on the Cross... then you do not believe in the bodily Resurrection.
You believe some sort of spiritual resurrection, which is Gnosticism.
As the article states... was the fleshly body of Christ revivified; brought back to life in its exact same physical, fleshly form or not?
You state that it is NOT in its same physical form.
And furthermore, your false accusation that I am 'basing an entire doctrine upon the omission of the word “blood” ' is another of your deceitful little target accusations. I scanned the article and am opposed tot he non-Christian basis for it. You are so deep into error that you must make up attributions so you can attack them!
You asserted, "This means John believed Christ was in the same fleshly body He had on the Cross." No, stupid one, arrogant blustering one, it does not have to mean what you assert! And in fact there is a better meaning that can be drawn IF YOU KNEW YOUR BIBLE BETTER. You foolishly twist the meaning to support what you are trying to prove using the sentence. That circular reasoning is hallmark of the deceived. You are deceived.
Here is another of your assumption strawmen: "And so John writes that “we have not seen Him” in that glorified state, but we will know when we do see Him, what we shall be changed into." You stupidly switched the cart to before the horse. To see HIM as HE really IS, we must first be changed to be like HIM. But you couldn't stop yourself from piling on false upon false ...
Your assertion, supported by zero evidence offered: "There was nothing spiritual or immortal or immaterial about Jesus’s appearance after He was resurrected." Since you are so sure of your false assertion, appear in a locked and shuttered room for me AFTER the doors and shutters have been fastened before your appearance.
Truly these words were offered for people like you:
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I could actually give you Physics reasons why you are in error, but I suspect you are completely closed to learning from Physics OR The Spirit of God in the BIBLE TEXTS.
“You believe some sort of spiritual resurrection, which is Gnosticism.
No I do not.
No I didn’t.
Continue enjoying your discussion, but either prove it or at least don’t put words in my mouth.
You stoop to name-calling and false accusations against my character.
I quoted John exactly as his statement logically unfolds:
1 John 3:2
“NOW we are children of God,
and it has not appeared AS YET IJohn has not seen the glorified Christ)
what we SHALL be(come). (It has not yet appeared, meaning, John has not yet seen the glorified Christ)
We know that, WHEN He appears, (But when Christ comes back at the 2nd Coming)
we SHALL be like Him, (we will be like Him because we shall see Him as He is now glorified)
because we shall see Him just as He IS (now in Heaven).
It’s pretty straightforward. Jesus went in His fleshly physical body up to Heaven in the Acension, with blood in it. Then He was glorified.
The most overlooked part of all of this discussion about the flesh and the Spirit is that, of course, Jesus had to go to the Father in order for Pentecost to come and the Holy Spirit to be poured out “on all Flesh” as per the prophet Joel.
Jesus had to ascend to Heaven, or “go to the Father” in order for us to receive the indwelling Gifts of the Spirit.
All of this nonsense about a spiritual bloodless body is Gnosticism.
If you thought I was jumping back into some sort of NAR heresy wouldn’t you point it out to me...? I think you would, please forgive me if you thought I was falsely accusing you in your character as I know you as a Christian.
You spittled, “My main concern is that if one does not believe the fleshly body of Jesus that was raised from the dead is the same body of flesh He had on the Cross... then you do not believe in the bodily Resurrection.” Aside from the fact that you inferred what isnot in evidence, You left out your signature bludgeon, blood. Why? And who the heck are you to tell a poster what he believes, from behind a keyboard? Mind reading is not allowed at FR, BECAUSE POSTERS CANNOT READ MINDS, they can only falsely claim they know what is in the mind of their targets.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.