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[Catholic Caucus] Death Penalty Debacle: Our Lady of Fatima called it
aka Catholic ^ | August 2, 2018 | Louie Verrecchio

Posted on 08/02/2018 8:18:12 PM PDT by ebb tide

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Pope Francis showing his example of the "inviolability and the dignity of the person" of Italy's foremost abortionist, Emma Bonino.

Between her abortion activism and being an abortionist herself, Bonino is directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of roughly six million Italian babies between 1968 and today.

1 posted on 08/02/2018 8:18:12 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Someone can easily make a claim in regard to the Death Penalty that there has been a development of doctrine.


2 posted on 08/02/2018 8:22:08 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: vladimir998

It’s not a “development”; it’s a total change, i.e reversal, of doctrine.


3 posted on 08/02/2018 8:25:26 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: vladimir998

What was once admissible is now inadmissible.

How is that any different from: 2+2=5


4 posted on 08/02/2018 8:30:35 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: vladimir998

God invented the death penalty, knowing the wickedness of the fallen human race.


5 posted on 08/02/2018 8:31:24 PM PDT by Salvavida
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To: ebb tide

From the Catechism

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
“If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.


6 posted on 08/02/2018 8:32:49 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

Is that JPII’s catechism or later?

If so, I don’t pay attention to them nor will I to Bergoglio’s.


7 posted on 08/02/2018 8:36:11 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: stanne; vladimir998
Catechism of the Council of Trent
The power of life and death is permitted to certain civil magistrates because theirs is the responsibility under law to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. Far from being guilty of breaking this commandment [Thy shall not kill], such an execution of justice is precisely an act of obedience to it. For the purpose of the law is to protect and foster human life. This purpose is fulfilled when the legitimate authority of the State is exercised by taking the guilty lives of those who have taken innocent lives.

In the Psalms we find a vindication of this right: “Morning by morning I will destroy all the wicked in the land, cutting off all evildoers from the city of the Lord” (Ps. 101:8).

(Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent, 1566, Part III, 5, n. 4)

8 posted on 08/02/2018 8:41:13 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

“What was once admissible is now inadmissible. How is that any different from: 2+2=5”

Inadmissible does not mean intrinsically evil.

http://www.courant.com/community/hartford/hc-news-catholic-death-penalty-breakdown-20180802-story.html

Pope John Paul II’s second edition of the CCC made it obvious where the trend in the development of doctrine was going.


9 posted on 08/02/2018 8:42:47 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: Salvavida

“God invented the death penalty, knowing the wickedness of the fallen human race.”

Yet that same God did not execute Cain when He killed Abel. God even protected Cain so that no one would kill him. Genesis 4:15


10 posted on 08/02/2018 8:45:48 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: ebb tide

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/08/pope-francis-death-penalty-catholic-teaching-evolves/


11 posted on 08/02/2018 8:46:45 PM PDT by Steelfish
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To: ebb tide

As a Catholic, I’ll worry about the death of the innocent well before I worry about the death of the guilty.


12 posted on 08/02/2018 8:48:04 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: ebb tide

Yes, I knew that passage decades before you did.

400 years ago.

Plenty of development of doctrine can take place in 400 years.

Remember, it says, “For the purpose of the law is to protect and foster human life.” The ‘97 CCC says that is best done without the death penalty.

I have no personal problem with the death penalty. But I know there’s been a development of doctrine on this issue. It’s in the 1997 CCC.


13 posted on 08/02/2018 8:49:17 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: vladimir998

Never said “intrinisically evil”.

Sexual intercourse of a heterosexual couple, in the Sacrament of Matrimony, is not “intrinsically evil”; it is good.

However rape, heterosexual or homosexual, is “intrinsically evil”.

Abortion is intrinsically evil; a just death penalty is not.


14 posted on 08/02/2018 8:49:56 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

By the way, I should point out that a Latin Mass priest I know already sent out an email to his parishioners telling them they can ignore the pope’s statement. He says the death penalty is part of the natural law. He believes this was done in error.

There’s going to be more problems over this.


15 posted on 08/02/2018 8:51:15 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: vladimir998
Plenty of development of doctrine can take place in 400 years.

Not development but reversal and it all started with VC II.

16 posted on 08/02/2018 8:52:17 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

“Abortion is intrinsically evil; a just death penalty is not.”

But is now to be viewed as “inadmissible”. That was my point. Pope Francis IS NOT saying it is intrinsically evil. He’s saying it is INADMISSIBLE. This is in line with the development of doctrine already in the ‘97 CCC.


17 posted on 08/02/2018 8:53:17 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: vladimir998

I know. I have already posted that letter on this forum.


18 posted on 08/02/2018 8:53:52 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: vladimir998

I ignore all post VCII catechisms, they change, not develop, with each subsequent pope.


19 posted on 08/02/2018 8:55:55 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

It’s ironic...if she hadn’t murdered all those Italian babies, they wouldn’t need to import Asians to help their economy. I could cry.


20 posted on 08/02/2018 8:56:25 PM PDT by Maris Crane
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