Posted on 09/10/2018 10:03:09 PM PDT by Sontagged
Quote-(How can you prove that?)
Revelation 12:1 is a sign in the sky. It occurs in the early fall today but occurred in late summer 2000 year ago.
When the sun is ‘clothing the woman’ (virgo) and the moon ends up ender her feet, is not only a symbolic picture. If is an astronomical event.
And the time described in Revelation 12 and the birth of the manchild is nowhere near December 25 because the sun clothe the woman in early fall today. Not the winter.
He was born an an appointed day in the scriptures.
And was circumcised on an appointed day in the scriptures.
those are not December 25 or January 1st.
The study of His Word and the study of His Creation, proving and testing all things, can show those traditions of men to be false teachings.
The woman in Revelation with the sun clothing her is also an Astronomy sign-. Not astology. Astronomy.
Astronomy - the study (science) of the celestial objects.
The sun appears to travel through what the Bible calls the Mazzaroth through the year. And that can be seen with simple astronomy applications.
And what’s really interesting,is the picture it paints.
For example, where the sun is today when Israel assembles for Passover-
It is traveling through the Constellation that the world calls the two fish.
And the sun is traveling through the Constellation that world calls the Woman at the Fall Feast of Tabernacles.
Two fish- Passover
Woman- Tabernacles
If you study His Creation, there will come a time when the sun will travel through two different Constellations at Passover and Tabernacles.
Those two Constellations are:
The man carrying a jar of water - at Passover
The Lion- at Tabernacles.
fishers of men and the woman is as biblically significant as the man carrying a jar of water at Passover and the Lion.
And a couple thousand years ago, the Constellations that the sun was traveling through at Passover and Tabernacles, respectively, was the Ram and the scales/balance
Those all have biblical meanings and significance.
That’s the beauty of studying His Word and His Creation.
His people can know His plan is written above their heads.
Just like His Word says the sun, moon and stars are there for signs, appointment times, days and years..
He tell the world where we are at His Feasts.
Through His Creation.
Don’t confuse false astrology with astronomy. Those wise men were students of His celestial objects- we call that astronomy and astronomers today.
Add that study with His Word and one may find wisdom, understanding and knowledge. The wisemen knew when and where to look.
No different today.
“this puts the birthday of Yeshua (when the Word was made flesh) beginning on the eve of the 25th of September, the start of Sukkot (the feast of Tabernacles)”
I’m guessing you simply slipped when you said this, but the Word was made flesh at the conception of Christ, not at His birth.
December 25 could quite possibly have been when He was conceived in Mary’s womb.
Otherwise, I agree with your suggestion that His birth would match well with the feast of Tabernacles.
The second verse is written about Rome. Peter was in Rome when he wrote it. That is the church of Babylon.
The verses you picked make no sense about the topic of discussion. Jesus was born on Tabernacles.( See previous post of mine.)
Jesus would rather the man have spiritual eyes than natural vision. Many times Jesus said,"For those with eyes to see and ears to hear". When he says that, pay attention, because what follows is a mystery He is revealing.
There are verses in Ezekiel 31 about a tall tree that an angel cuts down. Birds of the air and beasts of the field are demons in Scripture. They are living in this tree. The tree is a man made church. Usually churches are described as women, but this one is a tree. The birds and beasts are in and under the branches. "I'm the vine you are the branches" The angel leaves the stump but destroys the tree. The stump is Jesus. The church was based on Jesus but was corrupt.
This prophesy was supposed to be about Pharaoh in Egypt. Pharaoh is the Antichrist in the Last Days, and Egypt is almost always the world.
When Joseph was in Egypt, the Pharaoh was good and Joseph was a "type" of Christ. But then the Jews were put in slavery. The Pharaoh then was a Pharaoh that forgot Joseph. He was from Assyria. Almost everywhere "The Assyrian" is a type for the Antichrist. There again, that is a several hour study to find out the attributes of the Antichrist. Look up the Roman Empire and compare it to the Assyrian empire, and where they overlap will be the home country of the Antichrist. Syria, Iraq, or Iran, make up the bulk of that. Much of this info is in Daniel.
Also the shepherds were still out with their flocks by night so that out still had to have been fairly warm. I always way figured it had to be late March early April or September, more likely September with John the Baptist born 6 months earlier.(Elisabeth was 6 months pregnant when Mary was told she would have Jesus and Luke records Elisabeth at 6 months saying that “her baby leaped inside of her at the sight of Mary.”And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”).
No, Luke has Jesus conception at the 6 month of Elisabeth’s pregnancy.(She hides her self 5 months “and in the 6th month Mary gets her “good news” and then goes and visits her cousin Elisabeth... all in Luke 1) There is nothing that points our to the exact time of year. Gestation periods are 36 to 40 weeks and they didn’t have exact tools like we do today to closely “guestimate” dates of conception...John would have to be born before Jesus and be preaching for some time before Jesus arrival as he was the prophesied Elijah(in spirit) who would be the herald of the coming Messiah. It might be the date you claim...if Jesus was born in mid September as it would be about 40 weeks from that time.(with John being born about late March Early April say near the day of Passover or near the day of “first fruits”?!)
If you go back 40 weeks, the Mary may very well have been conceived around December 25(or late Nov thruDec 25 ) or so(depending if she termed a bit early from the 36th week or a bit later after the 40th week). So perhaps we have been mistakenly celebrating Jesus’ conception on December 25 if not his birth....well I guess some of the Christmas songs might have to be written....”...the fields where they, lay keeping their sheep on a WARM AUTUMN{or LATE SUMMER if 9/11} NIGHHHHHT that was so deep...Noel Noel and all that)
I have three children. I know a little bit about 'gestation'. Luke gave the time frame ... 'season' in which John was conceived, when he told us in Luke 1:
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
This 'course of Abia' ran through what we now call, the month of June. It was after Zacharias finished the course of Abia, that John was conceived. Count from end of June, 6 months and that is when Christ was conceived. I have no cause found, to ignore 'seasons' used to mark the conception, birth and flesh death of our Lord and Savior. The Creator existed before any of His creation, and He is the One who created the 'seasons'
From the 'beginning', Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Man has a history of polluting everything he touches. It seems fitting that on the shortest day of 'day-light', the Light would become 'God with us'. Interesting, no matter how much man plays god with a calendar, man cannot change the seasons. God used the 'sun' to mark the seasons.
Luke the physician, also tells us, flesh life begins at conception.
Test and prove all things.
Sanctify them in Truth. Your Word is Truth.
December 25 birth is false according to His Word and His Creation.
January 1st circumcision is also then false according to His Word and His Creation.
February 2nd presentation is also then false according to His Word and His Creation.
Do you want to go test and prove the rest of the false days/teachings/doctrines with His Word and His Creation?
It doesn’t get any better for the false days/teachings/doctrines at His death, burial and resurrection either.
It sort of explains why Paul warns about another Jesus and another gospel.
I went by the fact that sheep get sheltered and taken out of the fields when it starts to get cold and I had had read about the “Abias” order thing some time ago so I had figured it was about September with conception the previous late November into December(taking into account the 360 day calendar and other factors.
The Bible offers no real handbook as to the meanings of the various star constellations but does explain the feasts and the timings of the new year and Passover related to the timings of the moon. We don’t have any biblically sourced info as to the various meanings behind conjunctions of planets and stars...what we do have come from extra biblical sources and I regard a lot of that as astrology unless the Bible specifically points to them and ascribes meanings to them. They are there to help us mark the times and the seasons so that we might have reasonable markers to live righteous well ordered lives, to plant, to harvest, to make feasts and to help us remember important events. They aren’t there for fortune telling or to tell us the future. Now heavenly “signs” are a different matter such as Christ’s prophecy of the “sign of the Coming of the Son of Man” which all nations would note. There will be signs and wonders in the heavens in the latter days but these will be way out of the ordinary; the deluded ones will try to explain them away but the righteous will know and get ready.
This ‘stuff’ is all gobbly goop....
Given the probable timing of Jesus birth, the Holy Ghost may well have conceived him around December 25...certainly late Nov thru mid December if you are wedded to 9/11(per our current calendar). 36 thru 40 weeks is considered target zero for birth with 38-40 being the best ideal. The Bible says Mary was near full term when they went to Bethlehem so there ya go. We know Mary was already pregnant when she went to see Elisabeth in her 6th month as Elisabeth was suddenly filled with the Holy Ghost and acknowledged the Holy One in Mary’s womb.(Elisabeth’s conception of John would have been late May into June)
I was raised 'Christmas' was a pagan holiday... Then I read Luke, and realized what Luke actually penned. He pretty much gave us the date of conception, because of the course of Abia. Given that Christ is the LIGHT, of this world, it is no problem that the shortest day of the year, of sunlight, would be the day of conception... It does not change what happened because the pagans celebrate the date. Sometimes Christians allow the pagans to have the final say. Some calling themselves Christians wrap in pagan celebrations, so as to not offend the natives.
The Bible offers no real handbook as to the meanings of the various star constellations but does explain the feasts and the timings of the new year and Passover related to the timings of the moon. We don’t have any biblically sourced info as to the various meanings behind conjunctions of planets and stars...what we do have come from extra biblical sources and I regard a lot of that as astrology unless the Bible specifically points to them and ascribes meanings to them. They are there to help us mark the times and the seasons so that we might have reasonable markers to live righteous well ordered lives, to plant, to harvest, to make feasts and to help us remember important events. They aren’t there for fortune telling or to tell us the future. Now heavenly “signs” are a different matter such as Christ’s prophecy of the “sign of the Coming of the Son of Man” which all nations would note. There will be signs and wonders in the heavens in the latter days but these will be way out of the ordinary; the deluded ones will try to explain them away but the righteous will know and get ready.
I cannot find any Scriptural reference to the moon having anything to do with the timing of the Passover.
Amos 5:8 “Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:”
Job 38:31 “Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?”
I disagree with your take "The Bible offers no real handbook as to the meanings of various star constellations..." We in the flesh tend to only think in terms we are familiar with in day to day activities. God controls all, and it was Christ Himself that warned about those coming in His name ... deceiving the majority... I consider myself less than a fly speck all things considered... but am acutely aware when some in His Name make claims from their own made up traditions.
From my study of the matter, coming from a protestant belief system, growing up faithfully celebrating both Christmas and Easter, I've concluded, from a large amount of evidence, that both days have absolutely no relationship in anyway to Christ.
Both Christmas and Easter have pagan origins, practices, ceremonies, and Easter/"Ishtar", which is pronounced "Easter" was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called "Tammuz", who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god.
I’m guessing you simply slipped when you said this, but the Word was made flesh at the conception of Christ, not at His birth.
Based on the scripture of John 1:1-14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.", I'm inclined to use the day of birth, not conception. Also, conception more likely occurred on pre-Hanukah, as a shadow of what would come.
All of these happenings, timings, etc. are all PERFECTLY orchestrated - meaning only a Divine entity is capable of pulling something like this off.
Recommended reading:
Uri’el-2012 post: https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3686569/posts?page=36#36
Chuckles post: https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3686569/posts?page=57#57
I agree with your tagline.
“From my study of the matter, coming from a protestant belief system, growing up faithfully celebrating both Christmas and Easter, I’ve concluded, from a large amount of evidence, that both days have absolutely no relationship in anyway to Christ.”
The dates of Christ’s conception and birth are not specified in the Bible, unless there might be some tentative basis to calculate these using information from the Bible. And even if there was a way to know these dates with absolute certainty, there is nothing in the Bible which either commands or forbids the celebration of these events on certain calendar dates. This is an area of Christian liberty in which we all must be respectful of what other believers choose to do.
Romans 14:5, 13
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind... Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
“Based on the scripture of John 1:1-14, ‘And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.’, I’m inclined to use the day of birth, not conception. Also, conception more likely occurred on pre-Hanukah, as a shadow of what would come.”
To clarify, of course Christ’s birth is very significant. When we think of Christ’s first coming, this is a very significant time in which He came into the world. His first coming includes His life, transfiguration, death, burial, resurrection, appearances after being raised, ascension, and—certainly not least—His conception. The Word was made flesh at a precise moment in time, and that time was at Christ’s conception. The Word was made flesh AND dwelt among us, AND we [i.e. the apostles] beheld His glory. These things are all part of His coming, but it is a very important doctrine of Christianity that Christ “came in the flesh” contrary to Gnosticism which either identified the spirit of Christ as being entirely separate from His humanity or as if He did not have a truly physical body at all.
Thanks for the links. Very interesting stuff. I certainly believe that the Feast of Trumpets prefigures the second coming. Considering how other major events of Christ’s first coming and the church are connected to the feast days, I’m expecting Christ to return on a Feast of Trumpets day. Regardless, I’m watching and waiting.
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