[Catholic Caucus] Why We Need Not (and Should Not) Call Paul VI ‘Saint’

One Peter Five ^ | October 12, 2018 | Peter Kwasniewski

[Biggirl]

If not conservative, then traditional is much better. Avoids the Eastern connections that the word “Orthodox” brings.

[ebb tide]

You are not the Magisterium. We need to heed it.

How far back does your magisterium go back? Just to 1958?

FYI, as of today, every deceased post-conciliar pope, except for John Paul I (who only held office for 33 days), has been canonized.

The last pre-conciliar pope to have been canonized was Pope St. Pius X who died in 1914 and was not canonized until 1954, by the last pre-conciliar pope to have lived.

No post-concilar pope has canonized any of their pre-concilar predecessors; they only canonized each other. What does that tell you about the "hermeneutic of continuity"?

It's all an attempt to justify the Second Vatican Council.

SAINT Paul VI: Pope to Canonize Revolution of Vatican II

REMINDER: The Case for Pacelli

[ebb tide]

McCarrick relayed this conversation with the Pope Francis, “I told the Pope that I guess the Lord still has some work for me to do.” The Pope responded to McCarrick, “But on the other hand, maybe the Devil did not have your accommodations ready.”

'I am the devil' next to John Paul, jokes Pope Francis

Do you guys think Bergoglio the Jokester's canonizations are infallible?

[piusv]

There was no defect in the form of the canonization used by Francis. Blessed Paul VI was declared and defined as a Saint. The whole Church is decreed to venerate him as such....

if Francis is a true pope.

The same was true of JPII's canonization and John XXIII's canonization.

[piusv]

It's all an attempt to justify the Second Vatican Council.

Agree 100% with this.

[piusv]

Good posts. If canonizations by true popes can be questioned, then we make a mockery of the Communion of Saints.

[BeadCounter]

You have a political candidate, he’s pro-life, that is the primary issue with me, not that I’m a single-issue voter but that is the main issue.

Pope Francis has been making pro-life statements lately, he’s made them throughout his Papacy. That means a lot.

Lots of detail, I know.

[amihow]

I agree about the confusion, but orthodox Roman Catholic is accurate.

[amihow]

Neither Popes or Saints are, or need be, impeccable.

[amihow]

Our Magisterium goes all the way back to Christ in teachings on Faith and Morals which are developed, but never contradicted and which are taught by the Bishops through out the world and by the Popes. Also, rarely by the Pope “from the Chair”.

[ebb tide]

Neither Popes or Saints are, or need be, impeccable.

Then how does frogjerk (post #9) justify his quote of St. Thomas Aquinas?

(Quod 9, q. 16, contra 1) “In the church there is not able to be a damnable error. But it would be a damnable error if she would venerate a saint who was a sinner, because anyone knowing their sin, might believe the church to be false; and if this were to happen, they might be led into error. Therefore the church is not able to err in such things.”

[ebb tide]

The post-concilar popes, especially Pope Francis, have contradicted the Church Magisterium in many ways.

There is no continuity with the pre-concilar popes or Church.

[ebb tide]

Our Magisterium goes all the way back to Christ in teachings on Faith and Morals which are developed,..

That's one of many of VC II's innovations. Morality has now developed to adultery is acceptable to receive Holy Communion, i.e., the Sixth Commandment is no longer valid. Faith has developed to where now there is salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

So much for "continuity" and "no contradictions" with the Church Magisterium.

[amihow]

No, the disconuity of this current Francis and cohort's babble is NOT authentic doctrine.

[amihow]

Agree, and agree.

[ebb tide]

You are not the Magisterium.

Neither does Francis need to be, according to Thomas Rosica, who hasn't been corrected by his boss:

“Our Church has indeed entered a new phase,” Rosica wrote. “With the advent of this first Jesuit pope, it is openly ruled by an individual rather than by the authority of Scripture alone or even its own dictates of tradition plus Scripture.”

‘Nonsense’: Cardinal Burke rebukes Fr. Rosica for saying Francis is above Scripture

[ebb tide]

No, the disconuity of this current Francis and cohort's babble is NOT authentic doctrine.

So it's discontinuity with the Church Magisterium, also?

Will you admit that?

[Biggirl]

For myself, I stick with Roman Catholic, Christian Roman Catholic, or just plain Catholic, period.

[amihow]

Lol. At least obedient Catholic it sounds like.

Ijust worry about Catholics who set themselves up, right or left, against the authenticity of the Magisterium.

Blessings.

[ebb tide]

I just worry about Catholics who set themselves up, right or left, against the authenticity of the Magisterium.

Then you should start worrying about Jorge Bergoglio and his "gods of surprises".