[Catholic Caucus] Why We Need Not (and Should Not) Call Paul VI ‘Saint’

One Peter Five ^ | October 12, 2018 | Peter Kwasniewski

[amihow]

Indeed I worry abut Bergoglio. He wants to CHANGE authentic doctrine!!!

That I worry about from the “left” in the Church.

[ebb tide]

“Our Church has indeed entered a new phase,” writes Rosica. “With the advent of this first Jesuit pope, it is openly ruled by an individual rather than by the authority of Scripture alone or even its own dictates of tradition plus Scripture.”

Who exactly has "left" the Church?

[amihow]

Francis on cusp of leaving if goes Ex Cathedra with change. But he is wiley. Make change”pastoral”.

Tradition means that of faith and morals. It does NOT mean liturgical preferences of mouthy lay people. Like Latin Mass preferences.

[ebb tide]

Like Latin Mass preferences.

Preferences like Pope Benedict XVI and all his pre-conciliar predecessors?

Take a gander at this regarding the saint factory instituted after VC II:

Only two popes have been canonized in the 337 years just prior to the Council and now 3 popes have already been canonized in just 60 years following the council.

P.S. Condoning Holy Communion to unrepentant adulterers has everything to do with faith and morals and nothing to do with the liturgy.

For such a stickler for "magisterium", you seem very inconsistent in what it is.

[amihow]

You are assuming that I do not believe that refusing Communion to adulterers is o.k. I do not believe that at all. But, Francis is acting as though it is “pastoral” not dogma. He is so cunning.

Number of saints proves nothing.

[ebb tide]

It does NOT mean liturgical preferences of mouthy lay people. Like Latin Mass preferences.

Switching horses in midstream now? This post is not about "liturgy", it's about canonizations and the VC II saint factory.

[ebb tide]

Canonizations are certainly not “pastoral”.

[ebb tide]

Condoning and encouraging violations of the Sixth Commandments is not pastoral.

It’s a rejection of both faith and morals.

[ebb tide]

What are your thoughts about a duplicitous pope who “canonizes” a predecessor, who authored Humanae Vitae, while at the same time he’s seeking to overturn that same encyclical?

[ebb tide]

What are your thoughts about a duplicitous pope who “canonizes” a predecessor, who authored Humanae Vitae, while at the same time he’s seeking to overturn that same encyclical?

P.S. Humanae Vitae Vitae is all about faith morals; it has nothing to do with "liturgy".

[amihow]

I think Pope Francis is duplicitous and is probably trying to do to Humanae Vitae the same “pastoral” move as with Communion and Adultery.

I think that H.V teaching is infallible, although all the reasoning therein may need tweaking.

I think we could make the case that PaulVI had heroic courage in promulgating H.V.

[ebb tide]

I think you are confused on what “pastoral” means.

If you think HV is infallible, it is not “pastoral”; and Paul VI did nothing that any pre-conciliar pope would not have done. There was no “heroic courage” in simply holding up his predecessors’ teaching on faith and morals.

[amihow]

I think texting not capable of making myself clear. Francis is trying to make change in H.V. infallible teaching by applying “pastoral” changes.

Best I can do here.

[ebb tide]

Changes in liturgy and discipline can sometimes be pastoral, not always for the good.

Changes in faith and morals are never pastoral; they are destructive.

[amihow]

Iagree!