Posted on 11/19/2018 7:43:58 AM PST by Salvation
No one is questioning it is Mary in the passage in Luke 1. What is in question is the subsequent Roman Catholic interpretation of the passages in question.
You are projecting -- He very clearly said it is ALSO
orthodoxy doesn't hold to a-milly whatever, nor to pre-milly or whatever milly. That yon's a non-Catholic la-di-dah.
Catholics never boarded the "End Time Prediction" train.
read The meaning of the Millenium; Four views - what you are holding to is normally called the "Dispensational view", while the early Millenial view is normally called the "historic millenial view". These are not the same
The Church on the other hand rejected both of these as excesses - Origen speaks against the literal interpretation of Revelation and promotes the allegorical interpretation. Eusebius and Christians of his time attribute literal reign of Christ to a heretic. And finally it is Augustin who settles the issue and argues that the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth with the saints is allegorical not literal.
And it's not only Catholics but EVERY Church before 1500 -- the Assyrian Church of the East which split with the catholic-orthodox-orientals well before Constantine holds to it as do the Orientals (Copts, Armenians, ) and the Eastern Orthodox.
Lately it's mostly the wack-a-doodle protestant or post-protestant sects of Irvingites, Mormons and Adventists who have adopted the millenerian views.
So what is this grace/favor that is so unique that it even takes the place of Mary’s name in the archangel’s greeting, becoming Mary’s identity as it were?
When Mary asks how she will become the mother of the divine Messiah, since she is a virgin, Gabriel answers her: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.” Luke 1:35
The Greek word for overshadowed, “episkiasei” reminds us of the word used in the Greek Septuagint Old Testament referring to how God dwelled in the inner part of the Jewish Temple. (The root Greek word “skeinei,” which is similar in sound to the Hebrew word “shechinah” (Greek has no ‘sh’ sound), means “to tabernacle.” Thus Gabriel refers to how God dwelled in the Holy of Holies at the center of the Temple where the Ark of the Covenant was kept. Read in the context of the Old Testament theology of the Ark and the Temple, it is clear that Gabriel is explaining to Mary (a devout Jew who hoped like any devout Jewish woman born of the line of David to become the mother of the Messiah) that her unique grace/favor was already to have been prepared to become the real Holy of Holies, a fit place for God to come and tabernacle with human beings.
Since Sin means alienation from God (Isaiah 59:2, Galatians 5:4), Mary could not be “overshadowed” by the Most High God as Gabriel promises unless, like the center of the Temple, she had already been suitably prepared to be the Holy of Holies—in other words, that she had been created and kept completely holy, completely free from all stain of Sin. For how can God rest/dwell in what is alienated from God?
Connecting the dots, the Catholic Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26) came to believe that Mary was immaculately conceived (that is, kept free from all stain of sin) NOT because of any merit on her own, but to help accomplish what God had promised in his covenant through the Jewish people with the human race—to pitch God’s tent/to tabernacle/to take on the “tent” of human flesh/to dwell among us as our Savior. Thus the Jewish Temple is a prefiguration of Mary, and Mary in turn is a prefiguration of all of us as the Church, the body of Christ, who continue to give birth to/perpetuate the indwelling of Christ in the world. Luke 1:34
The second does not logically follow from the first.
In addition you’re ignoring the passages in Rev 12 and Romans 3; Gen 3.
The Church hasn’t defined a dogma about the book of the Apocalypse because it didn’t need to. A dogma arises when there are multiple points of view which can lead to error as in the numerous pre-milly groups like the Adventists
Secondly the Catholic encyclopedia says nothing of the sort you say -- it says the the Vulgate rendering Ave gratia plena, "Hail full of grace", has often been criticized as too explicit a translation of the Greek chaire kecharitomene, it says nothing that it cannot be defended critically
Next, the catholic encyclopedia also talks about the use of the term in the "Hail Mary" prayer and about its usage in time.
If this is how you critically read a web-page I would suggest really reading the Biblical books more carefully
The One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus
, that built western civilization.
The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
+10 One God
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
+10 Christ Jesus
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
+ 1 Consubstantial with the Father
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
+ 1 For our salvation
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
+ 1 Virgin Birth
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
+10 Suffered, Died and Rose
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
+ 1 Ascended, Seated
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
+10 Come Again in Glory to Judge
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
+10 Holy Trinity
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
+10 One Visible Church
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
+ 1 One Baptism
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
+10 Resurrection of the Dead
The Ten Commandments:
1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God
and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not murder.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
+10 The Ten Commandments
The Greatest Commandment
1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy
whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
+ 2 The Greatest Commnadments
The Seven Sacraments Catholic Church:
1. Baptism.
2. Eucharist.
3. Confirmation.
4. Reconciliation.
5. Anointing of the sick.
6. Marriage.(XY+XX)
7. Holy orders.
+ 7 The Seven Sacraments
The Precepts of the Catholic Church:
1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation
and rest from servile labor.
2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the
Easter season.
4. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by
the Church.
5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church.
+ 5 The Precepts
The seven chief corporal works of mercy:
1. To feed the hungry.
2. To give drink to the thirsty.
3. To clothe the naked.
4. To visit the imprisoned.
5. To shelter the homeless.
6. To visit the sick.
7. To bury the dead.
+ 7 Corporal Works
The seven chief spiritual works of mercy:
1. To admonish the sinner.
2. To instruct the ignorant.
3. To counsel the doubtful.
4. To comfort the sorrowful.
5. To bear wrongs patiently.
6. To forgive all injuries.
7. To pray for the living and the dead.
+ 7 Spiritual Works
Pro-Life - From Conception Until Natural Death
+15 Pro-Life
7
As I said “If this is how you critically read a web-page I would suggest really reading the Biblical books more carefully” — Romans 3 talks about people righteous and without sin through their own actions which is not possible as per Romans. It says nothing about the nature of sin of Mary. Ditto for your rendering of Genesis 3.
Maintain Faith and endure persecution.
Correction on my part. The CE references Gen 3 as being incorrectly translated by the vulgate.
Thank you, however still note that this is the translation from Koine Greek (of Gen 3) into Vulgate Latin. It has no bearing on the full meaning of the words.
Look around you at the people who are leaving all churches and saying they don’t believe in God.
And not to rub it in, but as an individual you can make mistakes - like your assertion about the kecharitomene. As a community, thanks to the Holy Spirit, the Church is protected from the slips of an individual.
Your last comment is interesting in light of your current pope.
Well, it does as Rome’s rendering of the passage changes the meaning of the passage and subsequent understanding of the New Testament. A bad translation leading to bad and incorrect theology.
Oh yes. The Roman Catholic scorecard returns in time for thanksgiving!
I’ve already posted from Roman Catholic sources Rome’s understanding of how Mary gave birth.
You can’t have it both ways with this passsge.
Well, it does if you read the texts without Rome’s rose colored glasses. Jehovah Witnesses make similar errors in biblical interpretation.
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