Pope Francis: Church Must Learn to Abandon Old ‘Traditions’

Breitbart ^ | May 23, 2019 | Thomas D. Williams , PH.D.

[Mom MD]

The New Testament was complete by the end of the first century while those who worked with Christ were still living. The Holy Spirit inspires and preserve scripture not the Roman Catholic Church despite what someone believe. Those who were eyewitnesses to the events of the Gospels and walked with Chris personally we’re well able to judge what was true and inspired and what was not. The Holy spirit has inspired and preserved the Scriptures we hold in our hands today. Is that enough authority for you?

[MDLION]

You don’t think there are ministers molesting boys and homosexual problems among other Christian denominations? You think the 4% of priests involved in these crimes makes the church a “den of filth”? Do you think less than 4% of Christian ministers are guilty of the same sins and crimes?

[MDLION]

The Scriptures were complete with the death of John between 100-120 but this wasn’t decided until later.

[Mrs. Don-o]

There you go. "Scripture was completed at the end of the first Century," as you say.

This means the first two generations of Christians (AD 33 until sometime in the 90's -- two generations) did not have a completed New Testament.

Moreover, those who finally did have the whole Bible, had a 73-book Bible: the "all Scriptures" to which St. Paul referred. This would be the Scriptures of the Eunice and Lois generation (46-book OT); then next came the Epistles; then eventually the Synoptic Gospels; and finally the writings of John toward the end of the Firs Century.

That's how the "All Scriptures" grew from 46 books to 73 books, reaching completion 30-35 years after the death of Paul.

Anyone who adds or subtracts from that will be have to answer for it. May God be very merciful to the subtractors. I would hope they knew not what they were doing.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I just caught what you meant when you said "I did not ask your forgiveness."

I think you were responding to this line: "You're preemptively forgiven! Pecca fortiter!" --- Am I right?

That was not directed to you. It was meant to reference Luther, viewed by his ally Francis. Francis is bringing the "Dump Tradition" movement into the Catholic Church, and he's already (as would be expected) chopping away at Scripture as well.

Let's see if he drops a couple more books! Pecca fortiter!

[sparklite2]

If something is biblical, it is more than tradition, right?
Traditional just means we’ve done it this way for a long time.

Doing away with unbiblical things doesn’t seem unhealthy. Copernicus might come to mind.

[spudville]

Chritianity is biggest religion in the world. Catholocism is #1 within Christianity. Therfor the statement is a falsehood.

[metmom]

Yes, and what were those teachings given by mouth?

Could you show is the sources that describe them/

Can you guarantee they were the teachings of the apostles and passed down faithfully and accurately?

Could you provide the documentation to support your claims.

FWIW, verbal teaching alone does not equate to *tradition*, else everything anyone says could be considered *tradition*.

[G Larry]

"But you follow the traditions of man based on what?"

The fact is the entire NT IS "tradition".

Nowhere in the 4 Gospels does Christ tell the Apostles to "write" anything. Instead he instructs "Go teach all that I have taught you."

And so they did for many years before they wrote any of it down.

[metmom]

“[T]he church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

Pillars hold things up, they are not the object itself.

No church is the Truth.The job of the church it so uphold the Truth.

And what is that you ask?

This.......

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

The Truth is Jesus Himself and the written word of God given to us through the prophets and apostles.

We are to exalt Jesus and hold up His word as the Truth that it is.

[metmom]

Maybe, maybe not.

But it is irrelevant.

What counts is knowing God and living in obedience to Him and that’s not hard when you know His word.

[metmom]

You don’t think there are ministers molesting boys and homosexual problems among other Christian denominations?

I'm sure there are. Pedophiles will sneak in where ever they can.

The difference, however, is when *Prot* ministers get caught, it usually ends with words like *former pastor*, *Jail*, *arrested*, *charged*, and things like that.

When Catholic priests get *caught* it ends with getting shuffled around from parish to parish to hide the crimes and protect the guilty by church hierarchy more corrupt than the priests doing the molesting.

You think the 4% of priests involved in these crimes makes the church a “den of filth”?

A percentage you cannot verify.

I doubt it's even close to being that low.

And besides homosexuality in the Catholic clergy has been an issue for well over 1,000 years and only god knows how much abuse went on during that time considering the debauchery and depravity of Catholic leadership for most of its history.Top 10 Most Wicked Popes

http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top-10-most-wicked-popes/

1. Liberius, reigned 352-66 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
2. Honorius I, reigned 625-638 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
3. Stephen VI, reigned 896-89 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
4. John XII, reigned 955-964 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
5. Benedict IX, reigned 1032-1048 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
6. Boniface VIII, reigned 1294-1303 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
7. Urban VI, reigned 1378-1389 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
8. Alexander VI, reigned 1492-1503 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
9. Leo X, reigned 1513-1521 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
10. Clement VII, reigned 1523-1524 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]

Top 10 Worst Popes in History

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php

1. Pope Alexander VI (1431 – 1503)
2. Pope John XII (c. 937 – 964)
3. Pope Benedict IX (c. 1012 – 1065/85)
4. Pope Sergius III (? – 911)
5. Pope Stephen VI (? – 897)
6. Pope Julius III (1487 – 1555)
7. Pope Urban II (ca. 1035 – 1099)
8. Pope Clement VI (1291 – 1352)
9. Pope Leo X (1475 – 1521)
10. Pope Boniface VIII (c. 1235 – 1303)

[metmom]

If something is biblical, it is more than tradition, right? Traditional just means we’ve done it this way for a long time.

That's my understanding.

[metmom]

God doesn't really care about theology.

What He wants is obedience, not theology and ritual.

Check out most of what Jesus said to the religious pharisees who boasted on their Law and their keeping of it.

Even in the OT, God told the Israelites time and again that their sacrifices were a stench in His nostrils.

Micah 6:6-8 “With what shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?

Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”

He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

[metmom]

The fact is the entire NT IS "tradition".

No, it's not.

Recording events and writing letters is NOT *tradition*.

And I also notice that you all have gone from the *Christ never told anyone to write down anything* nonsense when that was proved false to the point you couldn't deny it.

So now you've moved the goal posts as it that proves your point.

God puts a tremendous weight on His word. It's very important to Him and it is TRUTH, something your tradition cannot make the claim for nor verify.

All this nonsense about Scripture being from Tradition is an attempt to subjugate Scripture to tradition and the whims of the corrupt and immoral leaders in Catholicism.

Satan HATES the word of God and will do anything to downplay it or make people question it. The first recorded words out of his mouth were *Did God really say....?*

Catholicisms attempts to denigrate Scripture but subjugating Scripture to itself and putting Catholicism in authority over it (Scripture), is straight from the pit.

And all the nonsense of *tradition* is a blatantly obvious ploy to do it.

[spudville]

the·ol·o·gy. .[THēˈäləjē] NOUN .the study of the nature of God and religious belief. •religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed. Thank you for telling me your understanding of the bible. I'll stick with mine. It's over 2000 years of study. But some new age church discovers they have had it wrong all this time....right

[Redmen4ever]

Don’t go by the Bible. Don’t go by prior teachings of the Church. I am your master. Listen to me.

Is it surprising that this man calls for one-world government?

[metmom]

You’re free to reject the authority of Scripture and replace it with the authority of a church if you like.

You can tell God His word is not good enough for you and you felt the need to add to it where He left it lacking.

Good luck.

[grey_whiskers]

Done. I will now call him Pope Obama.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Scripture in itself states all scripture is God breathed and appropriate for teaching."

This would be a good argument for keeping the canon of Scripture complete as it was at the end of the First Century. This the Reformers ignored, when they decided to drop 7 books from the Canon.

By whose authority?

Can you tell me who had the authority to drop seven books of the Greek OT canon?-- books which had been accepted by the churches from the time of the Apostles and for a millennium and a half?