Posted on 01/15/2020 11:31:27 AM PST by Antoninus
In about AD 530, when Italy was ruled by the unstable successors of the Ostrogothic king Theodoric immediately prior to the Byzantine re-conquest, many noblemen of Rome entrusted their young sons to Benedictus, a holy monk who lived in the mountains of nearby Subiaco. One such boy was Maurus who is identified by Saint Gregory the Great as the son of a noble named Evitius. Another was Placidus, who was brought by Tertullius, a senator.
These two were among earliest disciples of a man who would be known to history of St. Benedict of Nursia.
Writing about 60 years after the fact in his Dialogues, Pope Saint Gregory the Great tells us that Maurus, “growing to great virtue, began to be his master's coadjutor.” Maurus is mentioned as part of several episodes in Gregory’s biography of Benedict as contained in the Dialogues. The best known of these anecdotes runs as follows:
On a certain day, as venerable Benedict was, in his cell, the foresaid young Placidus, the holy man's monk, went out to take up water at the lake, and putting down his pail carelessly, fell in himself after it, whom the water forthwith carried away from the land so far as one may shoot an arrow. The man of God, being in his cell, by and by knew this, and called in haste for Maurus, saying: "Brother Maurus, run as fast as you can, for Placidus, that went to the lake to fetch water, is fallen in, and is carried a good way off."Saint Maurus would later become famous in his own right. According to tradition, he was sent by Benedict, in company with several other monks, to found a community in the kingdom of the Franks nearby the Loire River. This became Glanfeuil Abbey and the village which grew up around it became known as Saint-Maur-sur-Loire. In the late 19th century, archaeological excavations were undertaken around the modern abbey, which had been destroyed and rebuilt several times over its history, revealing Gallo-Roman sub-structures.A strange thing, and since the time of Peter the Apostle never heard of! Maurus, craving his father's blessing, and departing in all haste at his commandment, ran to that place upon the water, to which the young lad was carried by force thereof, thinking that he had all that while gone upon the land: and taking fast hold of him by the hair of his head, in all haste he returned back again: and so soon as he was at land, coming to himself he looked behind him, and then knew very well that he had before run upon the water: and that which before he durst not have presumed, being now done and past, he both marveled, and was afraid at that which he had done.
Coming back to the father, and telling him what had happened, the venerable man did not attribute this to his own merits, but to the obedience of Maurus: but Maurus on the contrary, said that it was done only upon his commandment, and that he had nothing to do in that miracle, not knowing at that time what he did. But the friendly contention proceeding of mutual humility, the young youth himself that was saved from drowning did determine: for he said that he saw when he was drawn out of the water the Abbot's garment upon his head, affirming that it was he that had delivered him from that great danger.
Sadly, the modern abbey was abandoned in 1901 after the monks were driven out of France. It now seems to be privately owned without much external evidence of what it once was. Alas.
On the traditional calendar, the feast of Saint Maurus is commemorated on January 15 along with that of Saint Placidus. These saints are often confused with others of the same or similar names.
Catholic Ping!
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He [sic Jesus] is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Nothing in Scripture ever teaches that any departed believer can even hear us, let alone do anything about it...
Apocalypse: 8:3-4 ~ “And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with the fire of the altar, and cast it on the earth, and there were thunders and voices and lightnings, and a great earthquake.”
Ping
Just a simple fact that it isn't in Scripture, no Apostle taught it, no Apostle practiced it, and no one ever wrote about it before the second century.
” Nothing in Scripture ever teaches that any departed believer can even hear us, let alone do anything about it...”
“Your personal opinion is noted.”
It would be rather more convincing to hear from you a Scriptural basis countering his claim.
I'm sure you know that half of Catholicism is not found in Scripture...
Where in these verses can you establish that ‘departed Christians’ (saints) can hear from the living and can make supplications for them ?
(And, was book of Apocalypse determined to be Biblical canon by the Council of Nicea which is commonly accepted, or determined later by RCC?).
True humility may be an ordinary man’s realizing his unworthiness to talk to god directly.
Similar reasoning : for the Incarnation of Jesus to be something closer to them - living as a man - for humans to approach.
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Sidebar - Jesus Spoke to Lazarus (who was dead) - “Come forth” (and Lazarus apparently heard him even though he was dead).
Checkmate ?
“ Jesus Spoke to Lazarus (who was dead) - “Come forth” (and Lazarus apparently heard him even though he was dead).”
Christ is God.
His earthly life was a miracle from start to finish.
We are omnipotent.
in the book of revelations you have the censers containing the prayers of saints.
In maccabees you hear of God allowing the saints to hear
Also see the Mass references in the Book of Revelation
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INTRODUCTORY RITES WE STAND UP ENTRANCE SONG In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. |
Biblical FoundationMt 28:19 II Cor 13:13 |
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PENITENTIAL RITE My brothers and sisters, to prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred mysteries, let us call to mind our sins: I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault in my thoughts and in my words, in what l have done, and in what l have failed to do. And l ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. |
James 5:16 I Thes 5:25 Rev 5:11, 6:9 Rev. 2:5,16,21; 3:3; 16:11 I Jn 1:9 Tobit 8:4; I Tim 1:2;Psm 51 |
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GLORIA and peace to his people on earth. OPENING PRAYER WE TAKE A SEAT |
GLORIA Rev 19:6 II Jn 3; Phil 2:11; Jn 1:29
Rom 8:34 Jn 14:26 |
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LITURGY OF THE WORD
RESPONSORIAL PSALM SECOND READING ALLELUIAWE STAND UP The Lord be with you. A reading from the holy gospel according to... This is the gospel of the Lord. HOMILY WE TAKE A SIT WE STAND UP CREED OR THE PROFESSION OF FAITH |
Text related to the readings of the Day Psalm New Testament Psalm Gospel- Explanation of Readings |
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LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST PRESENTATION OF GIFTS COLLECTION Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. It will become for us the bread of life. Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father. May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his Church. WE STAND UP
PREFACE AND EUCHARISTIC PRAYER The Lord be with you. Holy, holy, holy Lord. God of power and might. WE KNEEL DOWN Lord, you are holy indeed, the fountain of all holiness. Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again . WE STAND UP In memory of his death and resurrection,
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Acts 4:35 - II Cor 9:12-13 Eccl 3:14 Sirach 17
Jn 6:35 Lk 22:17-18 Psm 68:36
Heb 12:28
Psm 50:23
Text related to the readings of the Day II Cor 1:2
Is 6:3 . Rev 4:8
Mk 11:9-10
II Mac 14:36
Phil 2:8 Jn 10:17-18 Mk 14:22-25 Mt 14:22-25 Lk 22:19-20. I Cor 11:23-25 Acts 2:23-24 / I Cor 15, 3-4 Jn 6:51 I Cor 10:17 Eph 6:18 II Mac 12:45-46 2 Tes 1:4-5. Heb 9:15 |
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RITE OF COMMUNION
OUR FATHER For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever. Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: "I leave you peace, my peace I give you", look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever. The peace of the Lord be with you always. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, At the moment of communion the priest or the minister will say: The body of Christ. WE STAND UP PRAYER AFTER COMMUNION
CONCLUDING RITE The Lord be with you. FINAL SONG |
The biblical origins of the Mass and the New Testament priesthood are rooted in the Old Testament. Both the Old and New Testaments provide clear evidence that the Mass is a true sacrifice, offered by a priest, and the Victim is the Body and Blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.
God stated three times that the Passover sacrifice would be “an ordinance for ever,” not for a temporary period, such as until the Messiah came. This sacrifice, and other Old Covenant sacrifices, find their culmination in Christ—’s sacrifice on Calvary (Ex. 12:14, 17, 24; cf. Lk. 22:7-20). Christ’s sacrifice at the Last Supper was a sacrifice of His Body and Blood, soul and divinity (cf. Catechism, nos. 1362-67, 1373-77). Much as the sacrifice offered at the Last Supper fulfilled the Old Covenant sacrifices, the priesthood of Christ—the priesthood of Melchizedek—replaced the Levitical priesthood of the Old Testament. This New Testament priesthood, handed on to the apostles and their successors, allows Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary to fulfill the perpetual ordinance of a sacrifice through the celebration of the Mass (cf. Heb. 6:19-7:28).
And from Revelation 8 you’ve made the leap that dead saints are on equal footing as our Lord Jesus interceding for us to God the Father? Why they’re not even physically raised from the dead yet. And how do you know these “saints” aren’t in purgatory (or worse places)?
“ The biblical origins of the Mass and the New Testament priesthood are rooted in the Old Testament. ”
!
Exactly.
Stolen from Jews, while rejecting New Testament revelation for the Church.
“Thou shall not steal”
And of course, with paganism mixed in.
You demonstrated that one can use God’s holy word to do something never intended for the church.
This perverts truth.
“ in the book of revelations you have the censers containing the prayers of saints.”
And yet it records no one ever praying to a saint.
Nor do Apostles teach it, nor command it, nor ever practice it.
Welcome to paganism
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