Posted on 01/15/2020 11:31:27 AM PST by Antoninus
Catholic Ping!
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He [sic Jesus] is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Nothing in Scripture ever teaches that any departed believer can even hear us, let alone do anything about it...
Apocalypse: 8:3-4 ~ “And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with the fire of the altar, and cast it on the earth, and there were thunders and voices and lightnings, and a great earthquake.”
Ping
Just a simple fact that it isn't in Scripture, no Apostle taught it, no Apostle practiced it, and no one ever wrote about it before the second century.
” Nothing in Scripture ever teaches that any departed believer can even hear us, let alone do anything about it...”
“Your personal opinion is noted.”
It would be rather more convincing to hear from you a Scriptural basis countering his claim.
I'm sure you know that half of Catholicism is not found in Scripture...
Where in these verses can you establish that ‘departed Christians’ (saints) can hear from the living and can make supplications for them ?
(And, was book of Apocalypse determined to be Biblical canon by the Council of Nicea which is commonly accepted, or determined later by RCC?).
True humility may be an ordinary man’s realizing his unworthiness to talk to god directly.
Similar reasoning : for the Incarnation of Jesus to be something closer to them - living as a man - for humans to approach.
-
Sidebar - Jesus Spoke to Lazarus (who was dead) - “Come forth” (and Lazarus apparently heard him even though he was dead).
Checkmate ?
“ Jesus Spoke to Lazarus (who was dead) - “Come forth” (and Lazarus apparently heard him even though he was dead).”
Christ is God.
His earthly life was a miracle from start to finish.
We are omnipotent.
in the book of revelations you have the censers containing the prayers of saints.
In maccabees you hear of God allowing the saints to hear
Also see the Mass references in the Book of Revelation
|
INTRODUCTORY RITES WE STAND UP ENTRANCE SONG In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. |
Biblical FoundationMt 28:19 II Cor 13:13 |
|
PENITENTIAL RITE My brothers and sisters, to prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred mysteries, let us call to mind our sins: I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault in my thoughts and in my words, in what l have done, and in what l have failed to do. And l ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. |
James 5:16 I Thes 5:25 Rev 5:11, 6:9 Rev. 2:5,16,21; 3:3; 16:11 I Jn 1:9 Tobit 8:4; I Tim 1:2;Psm 51 |
|
GLORIA and peace to his people on earth. OPENING PRAYER WE TAKE A SEAT |
GLORIA Rev 19:6 II Jn 3; Phil 2:11; Jn 1:29
Rom 8:34 Jn 14:26 |
|
LITURGY OF THE WORD
RESPONSORIAL PSALM SECOND READING ALLELUIAWE STAND UP The Lord be with you. A reading from the holy gospel according to... This is the gospel of the Lord. HOMILY WE TAKE A SIT WE STAND UP CREED OR THE PROFESSION OF FAITH |
Text related to the readings of the Day Psalm New Testament Psalm Gospel- Explanation of Readings |
|
LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST PRESENTATION OF GIFTS COLLECTION Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. It will become for us the bread of life. Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father. May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his Church. WE STAND UP
PREFACE AND EUCHARISTIC PRAYER The Lord be with you. Holy, holy, holy Lord. God of power and might. WE KNEEL DOWN Lord, you are holy indeed, the fountain of all holiness. Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again . WE STAND UP In memory of his death and resurrection,
|
Acts 4:35 - II Cor 9:12-13 Eccl 3:14 Sirach 17
Jn 6:35 Lk 22:17-18 Psm 68:36
Heb 12:28
Psm 50:23
Text related to the readings of the Day II Cor 1:2
Is 6:3 . Rev 4:8
Mk 11:9-10
II Mac 14:36
Phil 2:8 Jn 10:17-18 Mk 14:22-25 Mt 14:22-25 Lk 22:19-20. I Cor 11:23-25 Acts 2:23-24 / I Cor 15, 3-4 Jn 6:51 I Cor 10:17 Eph 6:18 II Mac 12:45-46 2 Tes 1:4-5. Heb 9:15 |
|
RITE OF COMMUNION
OUR FATHER For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever. Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: "I leave you peace, my peace I give you", look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever. The peace of the Lord be with you always. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, At the moment of communion the priest or the minister will say: The body of Christ. WE STAND UP PRAYER AFTER COMMUNION
CONCLUDING RITE The Lord be with you. FINAL SONG |
The biblical origins of the Mass and the New Testament priesthood are rooted in the Old Testament. Both the Old and New Testaments provide clear evidence that the Mass is a true sacrifice, offered by a priest, and the Victim is the Body and Blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.
God stated three times that the Passover sacrifice would be “an ordinance for ever,” not for a temporary period, such as until the Messiah came. This sacrifice, and other Old Covenant sacrifices, find their culmination in Christ—’s sacrifice on Calvary (Ex. 12:14, 17, 24; cf. Lk. 22:7-20). Christ’s sacrifice at the Last Supper was a sacrifice of His Body and Blood, soul and divinity (cf. Catechism, nos. 1362-67, 1373-77). Much as the sacrifice offered at the Last Supper fulfilled the Old Covenant sacrifices, the priesthood of Christ—the priesthood of Melchizedek—replaced the Levitical priesthood of the Old Testament. This New Testament priesthood, handed on to the apostles and their successors, allows Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary to fulfill the perpetual ordinance of a sacrifice through the celebration of the Mass (cf. Heb. 6:19-7:28).
And from Revelation 8 you’ve made the leap that dead saints are on equal footing as our Lord Jesus interceding for us to God the Father? Why they’re not even physically raised from the dead yet. And how do you know these “saints” aren’t in purgatory (or worse places)?
“ The biblical origins of the Mass and the New Testament priesthood are rooted in the Old Testament. ”
!
Exactly.
Stolen from Jews, while rejecting New Testament revelation for the Church.
“Thou shall not steal”
And of course, with paganism mixed in.
You demonstrated that one can use God’s holy word to do something never intended for the church.
This perverts truth.
“ in the book of revelations you have the censers containing the prayers of saints.”
And yet it records no one ever praying to a saint.
Nor do Apostles teach it, nor command it, nor ever practice it.
Welcome to paganism
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.